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Rights, Freedoms and Repression
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12th July Orange March in Belfast - Photos antrim |
rights, freedoms and repression |
news report
 Saturday July 15, 2006 23:42 by Giles King-Salter Gilesks at hotmail dot com
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Comments (40 of 40)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40is this a joke? does one require a reminder of how grotesquely sectarian the orange order is?
!
lovely word reminds of the castillian spanish bigotes which means moustaches. ronnies. indeed.
tis all bigotry. be it the land & claim of boyne or cedar tree
There seem to be many forms of strange practices going on in Ireland.
St Colombiere (a Catholic saint) was canonised by John Paul the second. He is venerated for converting protestants. He was an anti-jansenist (try wiki) and a jesuit.
Freedom of religious expression and dogmatism exists in both of these religions, tho' one of them is dominant on this Island. Bit like the pot calling the kettle black, isn't it?
The freedom to express seems to be inscribed in the European convention on Human rights. All(thus Far) orange order parades have passed peacefully. Except the Love Ulster Parade, which took place in Dublin - we have seen the photos of the level of biogotry, that our inclusive society is capable of.
(bogotry)
No joke. This is a major Irish / UK cultural event, like it or not. As far as I saw the march was entirely peaceful.
Photos copyright
the orange parades did not pass completely peacefully . Petrol bombs were thrown in Derry , Orangemen tried to force their way down the lower ormeau without warning and nearly succeeded . Trouble flared in Glengormley last weekend as Orangemen attacked and threw missiles at local residents whose homes they were marching past . This was followed by a bus hijacking and a bomb hoax . Glengormley residents then found themselves under siege for a second time , this time by around 200 Sinn Fein policemen whod been bussed in from Ardoyne under the control of a former senior represantative for Antrim Town ( who was moved from running the show there after the entire sinn fein cumann resigned in disgust) . Numerous young nationalists received threats from this outfit and a former republican prisoner was threatened with death , and not for the first time . ( " we should have cut the head of the snake the last time" are the precise words a senior sinn fein official was heard roaring about this former prisoner)
As part of their "community relations intiative " Sinn Fein vigilantes attacked nationalist youths in the Bogside leaving one 16 year old youngster severely injured and with a fractured skull . The thug responsible ( from Creggan) had to be whisked out of the Bogside by his fellow sinn fein members to get him away from angry Bogsiders disgusted at the youths injuries . The next day a security firm owned by Willie McGuinness ( allegedly j119) , Martys brother , lost its contract looking after buildings being renovated in the area . His firm ESNI ( not joking) Estate Services Northern Ireland lost its contract looking after a derelict block of flats in the Bogside due to the contractor becoming aware of the anger of local people . In the recent past Mr McGuinnesses firm was the subject of controversy after it emerged ESNI was employing off duty but armed PSNI men as bouncers in nationalist bars . Bogsiders didnt seem too happy with this either ..
Later on Ill post up the pictures of the major cultural celebrations in Ballymena , were a number of council funded bonfires displayed banners gloating at the murder of 15 year old child Michael McIlveen . These bonfires were attended by thousands of the towns residents who did not seem overly preturbed at this part of their cultural celebrations others would find ghoullish , depraved and condoning child murder . Apparently the towns elected representatives who not only helped construct these bonfires but secured official council funding for them had nothing to say on the subject either and are believed to have attended the celebrations , which this year celebrated not only King Williams victory at the Boyne but the recent sectarian murder of a 15 year old child .
The orange celebrations known as the twelfth of July will continue to the start of september .
As a musician I've often wondered at how the "band" tradition grew in Ireland, most notably in Ulster.
Simply, because if any music was heard at the battles of the Boyne, Eniskillen, Derry, Aughrim it was very simple. We know that from antiquity trumpets and drums and bagpipes were used throughout the world to "herald" battle and put "the wind up the enemy". The first references to music in battle in western culture are the trumpets used by the hebrews to break down the walls of Jericho.
But it was not until the reign of the French King Louis XVI (reigned 1643-1715) that any serious organisation attempts were made to formulate music used by military regiments. Louis XVI employed the composer jean-baptiste Lully (1632 - 1687) to standardise French military bands and music. Lully's bands were organised as hautboys (simliar to bassoons) of four different sizes and drums. Nothing much happened till the German monarch Frederick the Great (reigned 1740-1786) who fixed in a royal decree of 1763 the constitution of his bands. At that time we have the first specification for a British band (the royal regiment of artillery) which in 1762 consisted of 2 horns, 4 clarinet type instruments and drums.
If music was heard at all at the battles in Ireland between James and William - it was probably bagpipes, short flutes (fifes) and drums. And if any regimental music was heard - due to the french reorganisation it would have been heard on the Catholic side.
By the end of the 18th century most of Europe had entered a series of "fads" focussing on the east - "orientalism". This resulted in teh plethora of harem images in visual art, the fascination with Ottoman women and their bums in european literature and the development of "Turkish marches".
The most famous being the final variation of one of Mozart's piano works. It was then that the piercing noise of the fife replaced earlier reed instruments such as the hautboy. Contemporary writers marvelled at teh cacaphony of Napoleonic military bands which seemed to only consist of a-musical fife whistling and large drum beating. Naturally there are many who would disagree with this potted history and point out the very ancient and traditional art of Lambeg drum making in the north of Ireland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambeg_drum To those I'd suggest pondering the last image above (not the irish tricolour union jack I left yesterday) but that of the drummers in military uniform and "speckled tunics" & ask where they came from, & stop believing Lambeg drums were ever sectarian.
Those tunics are a relic of the practise common to all European monarchies to employ negro drummers in the wars and pagents of the 16th to 19th century. And it must be noted that for most of their popularity the negro drummers were in fact slaves. They were dressed as exotically as possible, and in the British regimental tradition wore a leopard skin as well. The British established a training school for military bands in 1857 at Twickenham by which stage the principle drummer was no longer a negro - but simply a soldier who wore that skin. Hence the uniforms our Ulster compatriots of Ireland wear in that image. Historically very little of the 12th of July celebrations is accurate or true to detail. This year's garden party in Aras an Uachtaran were probably the most true to detail ever seen in Ireland. http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0712/parade.html
The Sunday Paper's "Euler's Identity " edition :-
(to which this comment is a cultural supplement)
http://indymedia.ie/article/77131
So, are there no photos of the bonfires with posters mocking the Hunger strikers and Michael McIlveen?
And what about the marching bands with Martin McGuinness' face on the bass drum, or those drums with 'KAI' printed on them. (Though, according to the Orange Order, KAI does not mean Kill All Irish, but instead is a tribute to a 60s Glasgow Rangers player. Naturally.)
Surely that no longer takes place now that he has been allegedly "exposed" as a loyal servant of the Crown ...
Photos copyright
"So, are there no photos of the bonfires with posters mocking the Hunger strikers and Michael McIlveen?
And what about the marching bands with Martin McGuinness' face on the bass drum, or those drums with 'KAI' printed on them. (Though, according to the Orange Order, KAI does not mean Kill All Irish, but instead is a tribute to a 60s Glasgow Rangers player. Naturally.)"
No, no pictures of bonfires, but if I had I'd post them. However, I do have one of the drums saying 'Sons of KAI Rathcoole' so here it is. None of Martin McGuinness. These photos are taken from a neutral viewpoint.
Sons of KAI Rathcoole
A "Irish/UK cultural event"???
This is about celebrating the 'greatness' of Imperial Britain. It is pro-establishment, right-wing love of Empire and imperialism.
Are you sure you're posting on the right site? My guess is that this is an attempt to provoke.
What a pathetic organisation the Orange Order is, marching about the six counties of Ireland clinging on for their dear life to an archaic battle that took place at the Boyne in 1690 between two British imperialist foreign invaders Catholic King James II and Protestant William III - 'twas a great tragedy for Ireland that both were not killed, it would have done us all a favour! Is this marching about the place all this invented Orange culture has to offer, can ye do anything else? (and I don't mean killing Catholics or people with dark skin). Do the Orange Order not know that neither religion supports war (therefore, there can be no victory for any religion in war) and, anyway, both religions are archaic and not trendy enough for people in the material world today, and have both been overtaken by a new religion called "consumerism" - I mean do people still go to Mass anymore? - I haven't been since my Confirmation Day!
The Orange Order are a great embarrassment to England not alone to Ireland. There's not a person I know in England that believes they are English, they just see them, unfortunately for Ireland, as mad Irish people and the average English person doesn't know where the fuck the Boyne is or what the fuck took place there and couldn't give a shite either!
If ye hate everything Gaelic and native to Ireland what the fuck are ye still doing here, why don't you feck-off to England where ye can try to be as English as ye want, but I fear, ye will have quite a bit of work to do to fit in, it won't be enough for ye to be going around with Union Jack umbrellas and going on about archaic English imperialist battles, they'll only laugh at you, because no English person today gives a fuck about that and they'll just think of ye as mad Irish rejects and tell ye to feck-off back to Ireland! - please don't come back if ye do decide to leave Ireland!!
Slán anois!
The busy time of year for the Orange Disorder and the Ministry of Silly Walks
Mr Bertie Ahern, has for nine years on St Patricks Day offered a bowl of Shamrock to the US president.
This is a symbolic gesture.
It involves the Kow-tow of a 'neutral' Irish Republic to empire.
Blair Empire/ Bush empire- They are beligerents.
They say "if you are not with us, you are against us"
They are involved in wars opening up on multiple fronts and our 'regime' stands with the American empire. Because it will not condemn .
Silly walks there may be, but two major traditions share this island and there is no fraternity of purpose between them. you are holding desperately to your bigotry by refusing to recognise shared tradition and indulging in secatarian hatred.
yes unionist and orange long for Britain but irish are definitely more Boston than Berlin.
Condemn the war.
Let's put it this way :- Boston is closer to Salt Lake City, Utah than Ireland. (which appeals to us more? no alcohol or cigarettes on sale - everyone in smart white shirts - language schools for the CIA and Mormonism or beer, tits, sofr drugs and cafe terraces?)
Tho' some would think that Bertie's predilection for sucking up the US does bring us closer to the former.
He hasn't condemned the war yet....
Holy Bones, about the bowl of seamróg that Bertie gives to Bush every St. Patrick's Day, 'tis a silly tradition, surely, and it makes me cringe every time I see it, but Bertie uses it to raise the profile of Ireland in America and most Irish Americans think it's worth the embarrassment as it can be used to raise issues of concern to them that are very important and also in regard to the six counties of Ireland, it does raise Ireland's profile, so it really is to Ireland's advantage in that way. I'd like to think that he also expresses the Irish people's disapproval of Bush's war on Iraq, but I doubt it, and if he did, I doubt Bush would give a shite what Bertie says, Ireland is not a powerful enough country for the Bush administration to take note of what it approves or disapproves.
I disagree that there are two traditions in Ireland, there are not, there are countless traditions in modern Ireland today and none of the other traditions have caused as much suffering and grief to the people of this island as the so-called Orange "tradition"! What great literary works or compositions of music or famous dancers has the Orange Order produced (and I don't mean that jig danced by Paisley and Trimble)? What asset are they to Ireland, would they be missed if they were all gone from the island tomorrow? What positive contribution have they made to this island = none. The only thing the Orange "tradition" has produced is discrimination, prejudice, misery, death and destruction and intolerable suffering to the people residing in the six counties, what short of tradition is that, it's not a tradition at all!
In ainm Dé, bíodh ciall agat!!
Slán anois!
Bi- lingual. Maith an bhuachaill.
The point made (which is pointless in your case) is that the great Catholic collusive in war bullshite civilisation based on papistry is as fucked as the orange order.
I will agree to disagree on anything else you write.
Silly Tradition number* 3
The procession. in May. of child brides to may altars.
Giving the virginities to a woman facade that has nothing to do with reality.
One such girl processed alone to Granard, to die in childbirth.
Alone.
Can't name any orange artists, but enough mythic, ascendant ones who did more to save our stories than the shower of shite that ruled the Dail. including Yeats and Gregory.
Holy Bones, Ha, Ha! feckin brilliant, you can't name any artists or people of great skill or works in the Orange Order, no feckin surprise there! Nothing is as fucked up in this country as the Orange Order. It has absolutely nothing positive to offer to this island.
Catholicism on the other hand contributed many positive things and produced great works of art and culture and teaching and scholars and historians of great skill and ability that renowned the world over, for e.g. the Book of Kells, which people from all nations come to see. The many monastic sites that left treasures and great works of art, that without them, the museums would not attract such throngs of people. There is much to be proud of and, although I am a failed Catholic, as I can't live up to its high moral standards and abandoned it, I greatly respect the religion and the richness and moral values it gave to this country, and I have the utmost respect for those who endeavour to follow it, and I admire it, because it is hard, it requires great discipline. There's nothing silly about the Catholic Church. How fuckin dare you say such a thing!! Go maithe Dia duit é!
I would like to add also, there is nothing silly about the Protestant religion either, Dr. Douglas Hyde, was a great Protestant man, and he was admired greatly by the people of Ros Comáin and did wonders for Conradh na Gaeilge and for the revival of the Irish language. My greviance is not with the Protestant religion but solely with the Orange Order and the lunatic Paisley.
I nominate the following for national awards:
The winner of the most fucked-up organisation in Ireland would go to, guess who, "The Orange Order"; and
The most fucked-up person in Ireland award goes to "Ian (the Lunatic) Paisley".
Imeacht gan teacht ort!!!
Slán!!!!
.
Sorry to dissapoint my republican bigots on the other side of the fence, but I was at this years Orangefest and it was a raging success, I was even in Pamplona the week before and really enjoyed the San Fermin festival also, in fact, is'nt that a catholic festival?
Mithraism as you know being the bull cult which existed at the same time as Christianity until the 2nd century AD, and was most popularly connected with the Roman military, Mithras had died come back to life, worshippers drank wine signifying "blood" and bread symbolising "bread".
Even now scholars argue over whether Mithraism influenced Christianity (16 centuries plus before the Boyne) or Christianity influenced Mithraism. Many cultural analysts trace mediterranean & meso-american bull games, bull fights, ritualised bull slaughter & so on to this cult, and even further back in antiquity to the civilisation of Crete.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism
Other people think that's all shite - & simply want to know where you Rooster, & me, & everyone else stands on Pamplona. Is Pamplona Navarran? Basque? Spanish?
De réir >Economist < na seachtaoine seo, bhí 2,336 mórshúil Bhuí anuraidh, agus ní raibh clasmirtí ach le 26 díbh.
Lig don Bholg Bhuí siúl!!!!
For a one day survey of Orange 'culture', see:
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/77302
A true picture of Orange Reality
The Klu Klux Klan admit RCs and the Orange Order admits black people - 'relative' tolerance at work
Tuige nach gcuireann duine éigin an dlí ar an Ord Buí cionn is nach ligeann siad cothroime le gach duine?
All three of course, its in Spain, its in the Basque region and its the capital of the Navarran region.
The point I was trying to make was that although there were some parts of the festival that I did not agree with, the people in the region made us feel very welcome and we ahd a great time and will most likely be back next year.
This is how the Orangemen react to the sectarian murder of a nationalist, Michael McIlveen. They also paid tribute to a sectarian killer. Not for the first time.
For more info, see:
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/77302
And specifically on McIlveen, see:
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/76019
Orange bonfire slogan, referring to sectarian murder victim Michael McIlveen
Reactionary comment from DUP councillor - that rubs off on young loyalists trying to thing of a slogan to put on their bonfire flag
Having just moved to Northern Ireland, it seems more bigotry comes from the Protestant community than the other way - along with racism, lies, an inability to move on, integrate or welcome. Yes, firebombs continue on the other side, but who has been beating up the immigrants, which paramilitaries are still fighting (each other) and who is unwilling to budge or work politically for a solution.
I know that the nationalist community doesn't care for the opinion of the English as rightfully we shouldn't have a say in the politics here. But the loyalist community should care and take note - most English support the Nationalist ideal and don't think Northern Ireland should be ruled by London; most English hate the self-indulgence of power-hungry Paisley, whose religion has nothing to do with Christianity, and most English hate the Orange Order and find the parades utterly dull and more likely to drive tourists across the border to hear some creative musical ability. Move on, find a common cause and an identity that unites you with your fellow Irish, not one that is persistently divisive and retrogressive.
As long as there are Republicans there will be loyalists willing to stand up to them for the right to remain british. There are narrow minded, brain washed republican/nationalists with short memories that seem to forget that there oh so fucking great religion has produced more evil bastards that abused those who trusted their faith over the years than they would would care declare. The glorious twelth and all it stands for will be celebrated for many a year to come, so get used to it. As for the English point of view, your right no one gives a fuck what you think.
Republicans have no desire to remove anyone's right to be British. The Good Friday Agreement enshrines the right of people in Ireland to maintain British identity, and although many Republicans have problems with the GFA, no one has an issue with this.
Republicanism has no particular relationship with Catholicism. Many notable Republicans, including the founder of the United Irishmen, Wolfe Tone, were not Catholic. The current Irish Republican movement is secularist, and takes inspiration from the secularist and internationalist views of James Connolly.
Does defending the right of unionists to be British extend to murdering teenagers and then glaoting over the murder ? Does it extend to attacking Polish immigrants and campaigning against the construction of a mosque? If it does then it's a nasty, arcane version of Britishness, and most British people would have no time for its bigoted, slewed version of their nationality.
As to your last point, about not caring what the English think, we'll have see how important the views of Mr.Blair et al are in November, won't we?
I see by your by your opening sentence that you think unionists are stupid, it is my understanding that most, if not all republicans are in deed nationalist, or maybe the last 30 yrs of so called "struggle" to detach themselves from being part of britain and the right to be recocnised as IRISH was just a pipe dream and that is no longer the desire of "sein fein IRA". As for your view that republicanism has no relationship with catholicism is simply avoiding the facts and a false statement, how many shankhill rd, protestant republicans do you know or are aware of?.
As for murdering teenagers, I am against the taking of any life in the name of religion, but it is fact that republicans murdered man, woman and child over 30yrs and openly celebrated these killings in the ghettos they call republican strong holds. so your point is void.
As for Blair, the quicker he goes the better for it is he that has given more to the republican scum of Ulster than any other PM. maybe something to do with the wife!
I can't believe people are still like this nowadays. For fuck sake this is 2008............. not 1690.
This reminds me of the nazi's and the kkk. Just sheer hatred toward a fellow human for no real reason
Move on for fuck sake. You are not the people and you never have/will be.
and let sleeping dogs lie!
This years twelth was almost exclusively a peaceful affair, many thousands of people attended and enjoyed themselves, in fact many came from overseas to see this example of cultural tourism and so it brought in much needed revenue to the nation. Why do you have to try to drag up the bad old days?
It is not much of a culture is it, to be spreading sectarianism and holding sectarian triumphalist silly walks through areas you are not wanted in, and looking like ye have all just come out of a Monty Python sketch. It is a great wonder that you don't hold your battle celebrations down at the scene of the crime the Boyne, or are ye all afraid of us?
"Filleann an feall ar an bhfeallaire."
Those days are gone, the 12th July parades have been transformed into a vibrant cosmopolitan carnival of fun for all the family, why not go along to Orangefest like the half million other people and maybe you'll see that times have changed?
i have to laugh at the people who are makin comments about the orange order putting stuff up about 'mickey bo' on bonfires, the orange order dont run the bonfires, its generally just people from the housing estates etc, and as for the guy who said about martin mcguiness on a bass drum.....whats so bad about that, surely an ex ira gunman in government is worse??? the orange order could be alot worse, i mean at least they aint kiddyfidlers...
Hi Ballymena !
I hope it's as clear-cut as you say , but....
"William McGrath was a highly respected member of the Orange Order, leader of 'Tara' and ran the now infamous Kincora boys hostel...."
(From here - http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=96038&page=4)
Other alleged (?) connections in that same vein here -
http://www.belfastforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=26451.15
-and at the 'Related Link' below.
Thanks!
Sharon.
People complain about the sectarian Orange Order, well what about the power of sectarian catholic organisations in this so-called Republic? what about AOH, Opus Dei and historically catholic fascist groups like Maria Duce (so-called republican 'martyr' Sean South was a member of that gang of sectarians back in the '50s). Why does the RC church still control more than 90% of schools and most of our hospitals - some republic that!
Hi A Freeman!
I have as much time , respect or connection to your sectarian 'Orange Order kiddyfidlers' as I have to the AOH , Opus Dei , Maria Duce , the RC (or any other!) Church etc etc .
This 26-County State is a "republic" in name only and a politically and morally corrupt establishment playground in practice.
Just because you 'forgot' about the Kincora scandal doesn't mean we all have - you might remember that next time before you try and score some cheap points.
Thanks!
Sharon.
Most people in Europe regard the codology in Belfast as being done by people who are a few pennies short of the full shilling.
What a sad collection of plonkers marching about dressed up in toy soldier garb. The insecurity that comes with having an inferiority complex is potent indeed.
Its the old story , all it takes is a few Rotten Apples in a Barrell to ruin the Crop .
The hatred is Beaten into their Gormless Brains by a generation of Loser Families who know no better
than to continue their attention seeking sickness , what a sad lot they must be .