FARC want a process

by fnord Sat Feb 24, 2007 16:03

What's going on?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006%E2%80%932007_Colombia...andal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Departamento_Administrativ...ridad

I've always had a problem considering Colombia as an entity. It doesn't make sense to me socio-politically, economically or geographically. It's not that I'm a latter day boundary commission head or anything - the state of Colombia lays claim to huge areas of terra nullis far beyond the capability of the state to govern let alone secure and as history has marched - more of the formerly ungoverned area proves to be ungovernable. And in the last hundreds of metres before the shrinking forest are the coca plants. That's where they grow, when they're not being chemical bombed by the USA and then in the jungle is where orks, aliens, billionaires, and nazi scientists live.

& yet all the different groups in Colombia are so loyal to the "nation state" even amongst South Americans in general - they really like their difference. When the Spanish sat down with the Portuguese and the Pope of course (don't mention the pope enough) all those hundreds of years ago to decide who would carve up the Americas - the difference between Colombia and Venezuela was only know to the National Geographic style natives. Modern day Americans pay a fortune to save the forest from the chem bombs - other modern day americans pay a fortune for the cocaine. Leaving drugs out of it - ah! but you can't. Colombia is drugs.

It's been a while since FARC (who no-one touches as topic material with a bargepole) [..... I and Ì is airy and brave like the lion of Judah on ganja today ] said they'd like a peace process, it was last June by the date on the article above. Uribe got one of his friends back in the last week from the clutches of the jungle rebels. And promptly gave him a job as a minister. There aren't enough Colombians who aren't scared of being in government or not in the jungle, and it doesn't look right if the Americans do all the visible desk jobs too. Anyway his ex-chief of intelligence has gone. & He has now topped up his suggestion that Colombians can deal with FARC with the shock announcement that he'd like to do discussions.

When the "treaty of tordesillas" was argued out between Portugal and Spain it meant as much to them as a G8 might do for the types who go to those gigs now. The pope got his little marker and halved the continent - but the big and sly eternal but - the maps supplied by both sides in arbitration were falsified. They didn't know where the Americas were - other than west and had already agreed to split anything west between them on a north / south line - which would have messed up their secret explorations. Just in case you don't know - it wasn't possible to accurately measure north or south positions on the ocean back then. An Irishman generally credited as being a BritHunRuggertype hadn't invented "the northside" yet. But they couldn't just turn up to the pope (a very busy man in the 15th century) with invented maps - there had to be some agreement - so they spied constantly on each others' fakes. & in the process the other spying nations of Europe got their first clues of how to go and get a bit of the action.

But it was worth it -
Loads of Money. Loads of Blood. Fun fun Fun and lovely tanned petite people without venereal diseases.
.
I really want to leave an illustration. But that would be indulgent. People should be putting up pictures of book readers and pamphleteers - and shell to sea people - and love Croker types.
So I'll help you train your imagination... We've covered one of the unofficial anarchist axioms over the years - but many might dismiss it as a joke - so beautiful is the allegory and symbol the last time I used it that I recall was for the Italian election which saw Berlusconi go and Prodi come in , I also used it for Merckels grand coaltion in Germany only one group wins elections - the government. = the government wins every election If we take system based views of state political structures at a very extended level such as the one you live in - and the one the english rugger types live in - and the one I live in - the role of separate state apparatus which fully fit the "state within a state" analogy are less easy to spot. Colombia is on the other end of the scale. There Mr O Leary really would be able to retire from his Ryanair years and hoist a Smersch flag of his own and surround himself with pretty boys and girls who like being called bitch. (can't you imagine that?).................that is the power of satire.

I've just seen a Colombia indymedia thing bounced to Europe on Jorge Noguera the ex-chief of the DAS. The man who's death is causing a stir & without any expert comments this side of the Atlantic getting people on a Saturday afternoon talk about moon bases in the Jungle. Well, there is always one diehard who thinks the moment has come for Hugo "the man" Chavez to liberating.

Jorge Noguera seems he would have fit into the same shoes as ex-Italian secret chief man Pollari (who is up on trial now in the background of Prodi's woes for the CIA rendition which just tops his previous forgery of WMD evidence). This is because he is a "hot potato". For those of you who think I mean nutritious - I do not - I mean you throw the thing away or drop it when your senses over-rule your instinct. (Berkleyian logic) - . He was accused of conspiring to take out members of both Bolivian and Venezuelan state structures. (ah!!! does that mean their states within a state - or our modern day answers to Bolivar - Evo and Hugo) He was also pretty keen to keep his version of "the government" popular with those people he didn't kill - so he faked votes. I am amazed that in this day and age people in the third world include details like that on a profile. It's like so "lame a misdemeanor" everyone fixes votes - the government has to be seen to win elections.

This can be done easily enough most of the time by telling people how to vote or somewhere the nature of Colombia - not even telling them they were supposed to vote. They won't notice - they're still waiting on their birth certs. Jorge Noguera gave his name (it is said) to a death squad called "Jorge40". They probably got more fun out of rigging ballots than any Florida intern pritt-sticking the chads together. That's because men like Jorge get a kick out of seeing other peoples' blood. But you live by the sword you die by the sword. (that's a cliche - works a bit like fnord leave it alone)

Uribe's state honestly doesn't stretch far beyond the cities of child poverty and glue sniffers, and the backwash from the Cocaine industry which he so ferociously must regulate without too much pruning - so that all the family get their share - and then the nascent tourism which bills itself as "Caribbean" because no-one really thinks Colombia has good reputation. They'd be right the feature on Colombia includes archive material on masacres of indiginous communities in the way of Colombia's 21st century "clean tourism". American christians voted for that. Especially the type who never got to see Billy Graham gig Havanah in the 50's. I doubt the Colombian state even stretches into its own slums. But in the last while what we always knew (did we?) was true is leaking out - the Colombian regime has a jungle boot in the paramilitary camp.

http://colombia.indymedia.org/ they've cobbled some archive things together for the moment it's all in spanish. But the introduction paragraph wondered what language this particular "state within the ideal area of a state" would speak. It won't move from here -
http://barcelona.indymedia.org/newswire/display/294399/...x.php
But the Colombian feature page will go down.

I can at momentary glance see no reason why Uribe and Farc would enter negotiations. Uribe of course would have to do something like that - because it was election manifesto and reassures the American investors who buy his votes for him. But why would Farc wan't to do this? What's in it for them? or is it the case as so often happens - that attention will be distracted from something else as these two "deficient state structures" occupying certain common space allow each other some damage limitation. a "pax" between schoolyard knived up killers rather than a "peace proces".............................."Oh it's probably a prisoner / hostage exchange."

The illustration I would have put up was Marlon Brandon in the Godfather - because the day Berlusconi lost - the Corleone coincidently was arrested. The mafia do these places. "the government wins elections" ....................... but even the mafia have to meet up on occasion when something must be discussed by all the family.......or a new order comes from Dr No or Garland...... what could it be?
Hilary in the White House and the usual focus of the Democrats on some things like the Republicans really like war and oil?
Croke Park and English sports?
The neighbouring mr Bolivar and his exceptionally close relationship to Fidel?
The changes allowing legal coca production in Peru and Bolivia have made to the supply chain?
The planning permission on Michael O'Leary's moon launcher base?
The cow abductions?
Michael Mc dowell and how some day he will be open to academic research?

I reckon even if you do read the language and can find natives from this state - you still will never have the slightest idea what is really going on. So I'm going to go paranoid instead unless an educated and informed member of LASC or someone else tells us is this "a peace process" for real?
And they say every civil war may run out of bullets but everyone is still kept hostage. ( well they don't say that - I did, it is a quotation. if used in court as evidence it may however be contested coz i used the name fnord and Im not explaining fnords to a judger. its unconstitutional. .)

Explain What's happening please?!?!?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006%E2%80%932007_Colombia...andal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Departamento_Administrativ...ridad
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81lvaro_Uribe_V%C3%A9lez

by airy like the lion of judah Sat Feb 24, 2007 17:20

I just got that now - had thought everyone was being casual "he's got" "he's gone" and very early this morning around 04h00 irish time "captive". I'm not used to secret service bosses going to jail yet. Just imagine - and we don't have one yet. It will be blonde one who goes ;-)

this article seems good at first glance - don't know who wrote it - but the "internal conflict" and territorial division is very clearly referred to. I mention that coz it was in the FARC communique article above -and was central to the mlitary strategy of the of the other paramilitary groups who it now emerges were in total collusion with the state. Perhaps that's why they were first to demobilise. Oh well - no-one ever stood up in the Dail or broke confidentiality and leaked stuff quite unconstitutionally and by doing so abused their "power" or "status" in Ireland relating to Colombia and moreimportantly the legitimacy and legality of the Colombian government ---- did they?
Any of my old jesuit pals in the Oireachtas who went on record as saying the place was a normal democracy?

Of course not. No Irish connections or opinions there at all. So let's watch the Colombia 35% voted, oxford educated, neo-liberal anti-terrorist anti- drug president deal with being in charge of a - paramilitary drug cartel. & he manages to do that with billions of dollar aid from Washington. wow. Amazing what you can get away with in this world................ up to a point. It ought not be surprising. Conflicts of 20, 30 or 40 years not only spawn splinter groups and reaccion / coreaccion they invariably see collusion established for a Season at least. If anyone can find out more and update - I'm airy like a lion of judah today - you do the reading and be iron like a lion of judah. The man in charge of sending confidential appraisals of foreign citizens for terrorism is now in jail because he was a terrorist. Do you know anyone who got mail from that man?
Did anyone shoot their political mouth off about Colombia?
no more clues. yiz are spoilt. We just save it for our "information release day". And just to think John Negreponte has escaped the web yet again. & it is such a well woven web - but Negreponte is not there. hmmmmm. These secret service scandals all over the "grand coalition with Bush world" are very well made. George Tenet has popped up - but that's it. I get it now. the new government "our gov" will be a democrat one with friends in Virginia Langley. I'm sorry, bad comment. i stop now.

http://colombia.indymedia.org/news/2007/02/58018.php

by gurgle ·.· ribbid Thu Dec 06, 2007 08:15

Well, with both his friends & enemies all but writing his political obituary, Hugo "the man" Chavez isn't really in a geopolitical position to give two fingers to the narcostate of Colombia anymore.

If you're very dim, don't ask yourself who FARC are, (not even big swinging mickey mc dowell could beat my christmas parlour game of 2005 on that one, when I asked was he a british agent) , nor worry about how to pronounce venezuela or bolivia, or the likelihood of nazi-friendly ahmadinejad jacket mahmoud going from household name to dirty bombing california or (god forbid) O'Connell street..,

So .-

who has the FARC card?

well let's put it this way - it's not on youtube. So it would be hard for you to get to & through. But if you click the related link you'll get to see Sarko do the post Chav game. Who's side were you on? Chav's, Sarko's, the US democrat regime or " the people "???

by fnord Fri Dec 07, 2007 23:55

It's a little bit of news which has all the wrong words in it and won't get right up there on the dazzling headlines of either global or Irish worthiness. But there you go. Being twee & beguilingly stupid, one could suggest this is in direct response to the Roman Catholic Bishops' suggestion that this was the right thing to do. Being up to scratch on the latest hit records of geopolitics one might suggest this is in direct response to Sarkozy's suggestive radio broadcasts of the last week directed to FARC, being a bit partisan one might suggest this may have something to do with the Betancourt family really wanting Hugo Chavez to stay on the case even if whatever he's good for - doing secret negotiations in public isn't his forte. Oh that's the logical follow-up of coverage I was looking for & awaiting; every time you worry about Chavez getting assassinated by the CIA, is that the same CIA that the US congress being good democrats now want to hobble in their kinky bringing muslim men and goats to aphysixiation (even though Bush will veto the bill), or is that the CIA who the Venezuelan military apparantly keep such a close eye on to know what they're doing, or is that just a t-shirt & rousing they want to stop us platitute in the speechmaking which keeps us all on track? Oh dear. Digressing again.

Now a long time ago, I can't remember quite exactly when but I'm very confident there are traces of such a conclusion left on the internet with date stamps between 2004 and 2005 I suggested playing the FARC game just as they want it & say clearly how much of a slice of Colombia & to be frank - Venezuela they want to set up their shop - just coz I know immediately after the AUC will have to wonder do they continue with the current arrangement or settle down for a fascist state on the pacific coast. Fuck me., I'm writing like Winston Churchill - partition - dreary rain forests - order books.

It's not like the young people of Ireland have any day about the value of a hostage, the size of a demilitarised zone, or the consequences for all that black dirty manky money that's being speculated on. He's very popular that mr Uribe you know. But he's on the other side to ours. How do they get so popular?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7133359.stm

by fnord Thu Mar 06, 2008 23:23

Luis Edgar Devia Silva aka Raul Reyes whose offer of a peace process started this thread was assassinated in a joint land & air operation by Colombian military in Ecuadorian territory on the 1st of March 2008.

The assassination followed a lengthy period of mostly secret negotiations which have seen some of the several hostages held by FARC released under "operation Emmanuel" conceived by Chavez which saw Venezuelan Russian made Helicopters painted in International Red Cross colours allowed passage to the southern parts of the Colombian state. That process also brought to light the scandalous presence of "baby Emmanuel" who contrary to worldwide public belief was not in FARC hands but had been in an orphanage of the Colombian state since 2005. (c/f "constitutionalism for kids https://www.indymedia.ie/article/73471 )

Within 48 hours of the illegal incursion by Colombia into its neighbour Ecuador to kill Raul Reyes & alledgedly take as "evidence" his computer systems, Venezuela had mobilised ten battalions of its army on the frontier with Colombia & Ecuador likewise had mobilised its much smaller forces on its northern border & demanded no more invasions. Uribe responded by filing charges for genocide against Chavez at the International Court at The Hague citing data found on Reyes' computers implying Venezuela had funded FARC to the tune of 300,000,000$ and that FARC was preparing attacks with radioactive material on the capital of the narco-state of Colombia which has yet to be proven at international legal level to be a front for 3 cocaine cartels and a far-right terrorist grouping.

Aside from the Venezuelan owned Russian helicopters & the Colombian acess to American Spy Satelites, the major provider of arms to both states who are now potentially at war is Spain. Both Aznar & Zapatero excelled themselves in increasing their share of arms supply to both potential enemies. Really excelled themselves.

But lsetet you get all anti-ZP, it ought be remembered that Sarkozy has much to bear in all this, & his minister Bernard Kouchner whilst calling for an immediate diplomatic solution & return to at least the "status quo" it is bad news that the man with whom we [France] were negotiating & in dialogue has been murdered

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C3%BAl_Reyes

by boutros boutros ghali Fri Mar 07, 2008 02:59

There is ample evidence that these so-called freedom
f ighters gain most of their revenue from the drug trade(apart from ransom money from kidnappings).They are no better or worse than the paramilitaries who back the government ..In fact they are probably worse as they want to plunge an already turbulent country into even more chaos by using free market capitalism(profits from their involvement in drugs) to bring about a marxist revolution,although I would imagine that most Colombians ,however dire their living conditions may be do not want their country turned into another Cuba.(see BBC report below)

Colombia's most powerful rebels
Most of Colombia's 3,000-odd kidnappings every year are carried out by the FARC rebel group, who use the ransoms to fund their long-running war on the state.

FARC denies responsibility for the deadly Bogota club bombing
The group's roots can be found in the Liberal guerrilla bands of La Violencia, a civil war between the Liberal and Conservative parties that raged from 1948 until 1958, which became disillusioned with the leadership of the Liberal Party and turned to communism.
One such guerrilla band was led by Manuel "Sureshot" Marulanda (his real name is Pedro Antonio Marin), who in 1966 baptised his group the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC).
Manuel Marulanda, now more than 70, still heads the FARC.
Drug taxes
Until the 1980s the growth of the FARC was slow, restricted mainly to the outer reaches of the country where hardy peasants had carved land from the jungle and where the state has neglected to follow them.
But then the FARC discovered drugs - not consuming them, which is prohibited in the rebel ranks, but taxing them.
Now they tax every stage of the drug business, from the chemicals needed to process the hardy coca bush into cocaine and the opium poppy into heroin, right up to charging for the processed drugs to be flown from illegal airstrips they control.
And they make at least $300m from the drug trade every year, added to which is their income from kidnapping and extortion, making them probably the richest insurgent group in the world.

Closed route

by snuffle Fri Mar 07, 2008 03:03

The state of Colombia relies on 3 cartels to ensure children still sniff glue & it has proven links to right wing paramilitiaries. Oh the kettle calls the pot black.

So I take it you'd be against a Peace Process then?
not only against Hugo & the jewish masonic communist conspiracy but against Sarkozy & Carla Bruni too?

I bet you don't get shagged.

by fnord Sat Mar 15, 2008 14:11

Put it this way, this week Uribe got an 84% approval rating in his state's opinion polls for the assassination of Raul Reyes in Ecuadorian territory recently.

oh go on - i'll surprise you & give you the co-ordinates of the FARC "mother base" so you can look at it on google earth, it's your planet after all :- North 0º23`10.66 West 076º20`59.88 which you'll find is exactly 1.85 kilometres on the Ecuadorian side of the Colombian border. The British arrested people much further over our own sweet border (sorry their sour border) during the troubles.

Anyway, the two sides of Bolivarianism - the right wing yankee Uribe & the Cuban man Chavez aren't going to have a war after all. Sorry for getting your hopes or fears up there. Uribe gets a big pat on the back & the attitude of the French (which I reported in comments above the usual tiresome barstool condemnation comment my monitoring of conflict resolutions always seems to attract) is not really that important anymore. Sarkozy has a lower popular approval rating in his state than Hugo Chavez at the moment who is gearing up for his party conference in November facing heavy internal criticism from both progressive radical elements & centrist types. That conference will see the next round of elections for the 353 mayors & 23 state governors which will be the Venezuelan's next test of Chavez' recipe since he lost his referendum on constitutional reform. His party currently hold 300 mayors & 21 governors. They want to hold on to them too.

http://www.eluniversal.com/2008/03/15/pol_art_chavez-pi...shtml

Oh yep. Mossad are now know to have opened a station in Bogota....... Civilian agencies, leave paper trails. Busy little triangle of the world. They first helped out the US & Colombians looking for Iranian agents who seemingly are easier to spot than the Cuban secret service....military agencies don't leave paper trails.

I'll keep you posted & update on the Fnords®™ which of course anyone who read the first Wilson obituary will know all about. http://www.indymedia.ie/index.php?obj_id=2117&topic_id=...tent=