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category national | miscellaneous | other press author Sunday May 28, 2006 10:44author by Author Required Report this post to the editors

Massive blow for Sinn Fein and the Republican Movement

Today's papers carry the story of Martin McGuinness, MI6 spy.

According to a number of papers today, former FRU agent Martin Ingram is claiming that Martin McGuinness is an MI6 spy, and has a transcript of a conversation between agent J118 and his handler (G) to prove it.

It is being claimed more documentation detailing McGuinness' career as a British agent is forthcoming.

Martin Ingram is most known for exposing the agent "Stake Knife", who was revealed to be Freddie Scappaticci, the head of the IRA's so called 'Nutting Squad'.

Sinn Fein denied Scappaticci was an agent for the British.

Other prominent Sinn Fein figures have also been named publicly as informers, including Belfast SF councillors Tom Hartley, a central figure in the 1981 hunger strikes and once part of the 'Adams think tank', and Alex Maskey, Sinn Fein's first Belfast mayor; Belfast man Dickie Glenholmes, who was part of the 1970s 'think tank', Derry SF councillor and former Stormont MLA Mary Nelis, and Andersonstown News Group editor Sean Maguire, who has been appointed head of Sinn Fein's parade committee this year.

Most recently, Denis Donaldson, a long-time IRA and Sinn Fein figure, was exposed as an agent who had been working for the British for two decades. He was later found murdered at a cottage in Donegal.

Apart from Donaldson, Sinn Fein's response has been to deny the accusations and claim that such allegations are the work of 'anti republicans' or 'securocrats' whose aim is to 'destabilise the peace process'.

They have also made sure to keep those who have been accused, such as Hartley and Maguire, in active roles within their structures. Hartley is regularly featured in the Belfast Andersonstown News and Maguire has held onto his position at the North Belfast News and been given this summer's responsibilities for the Ardoyne parades issue.

Martin McGuinness has had a long career in the Republican Movement, rising at one time to the role of Chief of Staff of the IRA, and is currently referred to as Sinn Fein's chief negotiator at Stormont. He has been a British MP since 1997 and a Stormont MLA since 1996. He was a member of the Prior Assembly from 1982-1986. He is known to have been in secret negotiations with the 'Mountain Climber' from the 1980s on.

Now that the Provisional IRA has decommissioned most, if not all, of their weapons, and Sinn Fein is firmly on the constitutional path, with Gerry Adams nominating Ian Paisley for First Minister at Stormont, the British, who have long sought to defeat the IRA, could be considered confident enough to administer a coup de grace such as this to the lifeless body of the PIRA, finishing it off once and for all.

Martin McGuinness will not have an easy time attempting to explain or deny this current allegation, especially if it is true more details are to be made public.

Sinn Fein's previous denials, most especially over the 'Stake Knife' affair, have made his position weaker.

If it is true that Martin McGuinness has been a British agent, the history of the Troubles and the peace process as it is known has been completely upended.

The implications of this relevation are shocking on a number of levels, both for the Republican Movement, who championed McGuinness as a 'hawk' in selling their role in the peace process, and for the British, who would have been manipulating the PIRA to protect their agents, and killing their own soldiers and citizens in the process.

author by sum peoplepublication date Sun May 28, 2006 11:06Report this post to the editors

'According to a number of papers today,'

and yet you have not supplied one link.

author by sum people are so lazy go to the shop and get the paperspublication date Sun May 28, 2006 11:46Report this post to the editors

SUNDAY TRIBUNE: Senior Sinn Fein figure 'is a spy'
SUNDAY PEOPLE: Sinn Fein man is named as British spy
SUNDAY WORLD: McGuinness Was Brit Spy

Photo of document:
J118: as I said, Patsy (SA3)was all for it. Tommy (SA1) was ready to go, he said he would have no problems asking the crew for their support.
G: Do you think there will be any problem with it?
J118: No everyone will go along with it. Its right up their street.
G: This will leave no questions in doubt, you know that?
J118: I know our fella (J119) has everyone geared up for it; he (J119) thinks it's his idea.
G: Well then, there is no one that can point the finger at you.
G: I think you should push this along as quickly as possible.
J118: Murray (B328) is pushing, starting to ask a lot of questions about Belfast Command.
G: Don't worry, we will look after things in that department, you just concentrate ont he checkpoints.
G: We must have another meeting next week. In the meantime you can use the number I gave you in update on the progress of things.
CAPTION: "SPOOK: The report seen by the Sunday World proving McGuinness's past"

"The Sunday World has obstained a transcript of a conversation which Ingram confirms is between McGuinness and his Mi6 handler.

In it, the pair discuss the IRA's 'human bomb' strategy which was an escalation in the republican group's terror campaign." SUNDAY WORLD excerpt

The documents are said to include numerous transcripts of recorded conversations between agent J118 and his handler.

In one conversation the pair discuss a planned attack which left a civilian and five soldiers dead.

Army barracks canteen worker Patsy Gillespie died after being used as a human bomb in Derry in October 1990 - an atrocity which also killed five troops. If authentic the documents will also show the British Government also had prior knowledge of a planned attack.

On the same day one soldier died in another attack in Newry, Co Down, which was also allegedly co-ordinated by agent J118 and a Belfast-based republican on the IRA's Northern Command. Agent J118 is also believed to have been involved in a number of other killings including army agent Frank Hegarty who was killed in Co Donegal in 1986.
SUNDAY PEOPLE excerpt

"A SENIOR member of the Provisional IRA and Sinn Fein is a long-serving British spy, according to a document which former British intelligence officer Martin Ingram is circulating.

Ingram, who outed Freddie Scappaticci as Stakeknife, says the document was given to him by a serving Special Branch officer. He claims it is a transcript of a meeting between the Provisional leader and his British intelligence handler about the human bomb tactic the IRA developed in 1990." SUNDAY TRIBUNE excerpt

More to follow meanwhile buy your own papers - sum people!

author by linkpublication date Sun May 28, 2006 11:55Report this post to the editors

28 May 2006
SPY SHOCKER
EXCLUSIVE
By Gail Edgar
TOP secret papers obtained by The People have sensationally exposed one of Sinn Fein's most senior figures as a British SPY.

Related Link: http://www.people.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=17143309&metho...--nam
author by NBpublication date Sun May 28, 2006 12:01Report this post to the editors

The Sunday People is the paper that broke the 'Stake Knife' story, and eventually exposed Freddie Scappaticci.

author by as expectedpublication date Sun May 28, 2006 12:04Report this post to the editors

McGuinness is not a british spy - Sinn Féin
28/05/2006 - 10:47:31

Sinn Féin today rubbished claims by a former British Army intelligence officer that its chief negotiator Martin McGuinness was a British spy.

The allegation, which was carried in a Sunday newspaper, was made by former agent handler Martin Ingram.

Mr Ingram two years ago identified Belfast republican Freddie Scappaticci as the prized British agent Stakeknife, within the IRA – an allegation he denied before fleeing his home in the west of the city.

It also followed the unmasking last year of Sinn Féin’s former head of administration at Stormont Denis Donaldson as a spy.

He was gunned down in April at a remote cottage in Glenties, Co Donegal after details of where he was laying low emerged.

A Sinn Féin spokesman today dismissed claims that Mr McGuinness, who admitted in May 2001 in a submission to the Bloody Sunday Inquiry that he was the IRA’s second in command in Derry in 1971, worked for MI6 during the 1990’s.

He also rejected claims that the allegation against Mr McGuinness was supported by documentary evidence.

“We have heard this all before,” a spokesman told PA.

“It is rubbish. It is nonsense.

“Anybody with half a wit will treat it with the contempt it rightly deserves.”

Related Link: http://www.eveningecho.ie/news/bstory.asp?j=184128330&p...29090
author by linkspublication date Sun May 28, 2006 12:27Report this post to the editors

"Last weekend, British Intelligence comprehensively briefed the British and Irish media. Faceless and nameless securocrats in British Intelligence made a raft of serious but unsubstantiated allegations against Freddie Scapatticci. This storm of accusations and allegations against Freddie Scapatticci has been accepted and repeated as fact by a large section of the media without question, without criticism. Mr Scapatticci has denied the allegations in categoric terms." Gerry Kelly, 14 May 2003
http://www.sinnfein.ie/news/detail/118

"The Sinn Féin President has said he accepts at face value the statement by the alleged IRA informer, Fred Scappaticci, that he was not a spy for the British security services.

In a reference to the 'Stakeknife' controversy, he called on the British government to reveal all about its spying operations in the North.

He said the media were the real losers in the 'Stakeknife' saga as they had bought a line from what he called faceless people." RTE report on Gerry Adams speech at Ulster Hall, 16 May 2003
http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0516/north01.html

"Double agent `Stakeknife' is an amalgam of informers and electronic bugs used by the security services in the 1980s and early 1990s, according to senior Provisional IRA sources. The sources told The Sunday Business Post that inquiries by the Provisionals have established that the character, as outlined in media leaks by the intelligence services, does not exist.

"It would be laughable were it not so serious," a senior source said." Stakeknife character does not exist: IRA. Sunday Business Post 18 May 2003
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2003/05/18/story812...1.asp

Freddie Scappaticci, the man accused of being the British army's top spy in the IRA, Stakeknife, should be "judged as innocent until proven guilty", the Sinn Fein president, Gerry Adams, said today.

Asked if he believed Mr Scappaticci's claim that he was not an agent, Mr Adams said: "I have to accept that but I'm not going to get into a whole pile of speculation."

Speaking yesterday, the Sinn Fein chief negotiator, Martin McGuinness, also appeared to back Mr Scappaticci, saying that he could not "disbelieve his denial". Like Mr Adams, he blamed the Stakeknife affair on the "faceless securocrats in British intelligence".

"Mr Scappaticci is the only person with the courage to go before the cameras and put himself before the media and to issue a statement in his own name," he told the Irish broadcaster RTE. "All of these other stories are coming from nameless and faceless securocrats in British intelligence." Adams: Scappaticci innocent until proven guilty, Guardian, 16 May 2003
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/northernirelandassembly/....html

author by Barrypublication date Sun May 28, 2006 16:46Report this post to the editors

During my first tour in NI I worked for the Force Research Unit in Derry. We had a very, very nice man on our books that worked for us as an agent, he was called Frank Hegarty. The Intelligence services knew through a vast army of PIRA informers that the IRA was being supplied with modern weaponry from Libya. This information had been gathered for many months prior to the shipments.

I was only in my mid-twenties during this period. Although I had been in NI for a couple of years at this time. I had been asked a few months prior to become involved with Frankie code name 3018 on a co-handler basis. At this time Frankie was not a prolific informer, he had old links back to the IRA of today but not a lot else. He had I was told by my boss some friendship or past association with Martin McGuinness and the agent should be encouraged to become closer to McGuinness. I met this man and quickly developed warmth for him. He was a genuine working class man who like myself enjoyed the dogs, horses and women. I liked him. That said he was not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I admit I never thought twice about asking Frankie to get alongside McGuinness. Frankie complied with our request and became involved with McGuinness. McGuinness vouched for this man against the advice of other senior Republicans. Astoundingly within months was allocated a massive cache of arms and munitions. Now that was lucky was it not? Sometime later this cache of arms was recovered and Frank was recovered to a place of safety. It was at the time the largest ever find in the Island of Ireland.

My Father suddenly became ill before the recovery of the arms and Frankos exposure. I requested and was offered a position within a security department close to my hometown and a rise in rank for good service was also appreciated. This was a compassionate posting. Within two weeks I had left Derry and although I returned subsequently to the FRU after my father died it was never quite the same again.

During this compassionate posting I was asked to become involved in the resettlement of two informers who had become exposed and because I had first hand knowledge of both of them I accepted with the blessing of my father who was very ill. Over a period of time L Branch was looking after both Frank Hegarty and Willie Carlin. During this period I met with both Frank and Willie on almost a daily basis.

During this period Willie Carlin received a phone call directly from Martin McGuinness. This phone call was taped and reports made to record this event. McGuinness reassured Willie Carlin that all would be well and he should return to Derry his hometown to be with his family and he (McGuinness) would personally vouch for Frank’s safety. Once the phone call had finished Carlin told me that he (McGuinness) must think I am a fucking idiot. I had to agree and we both shared a smile.

I prepared a report and handed the tapes over to my boss, Lt Col Kerr. Given Martin McGuinness’ position within the PIRA I took this to be a conspiracy to murder. Kerr concurred and to be honest I never saw sight of either the report or the tape again. A few years ago Carlin spoke to Liam Clarke at the Sunday Times and he mentioned the phone calls made by McGuinness to reassure and hopefully allow him to return home. Carlin did not know the call was taped.

I also had contact with Frank Hegarty and he too informed me that he also had contact with McGuinness. Frank, too, had also been offered a safe return by McGuinness. It is true that Frank was depressed and missed his family very much and his hometown of Derry. I was upset at the state of this man. He was depressed, but as far as I knew, he had not been to see a doctor. I had been assigned to Carlin on a 24 hr basis and only occasionally did I have contact with Frank. I think I met with Frank two or three times over a few weeks. Frank told me that McGuinness had made it clear - come home and the mess can be sorted. I told Frank to forget it; it was not going to happen.

The two people who had been assigned to baby-sit Frank were the easygoing sort and one of them was not a badged FRU member. At the time I did not really think much about this decision. Although it was a strange one. I was aware that Kerr thought Frank to be a security concern and his depression was a potential problem for the FRU. I did not for one moment think that they would allow Frank to return to Derry and if he did they would make it impossible - or at least very difficult - for the IRA to operate against him. Freddie Scappaticci, as the PIRA internal security man, gave the inside story of where, when and how Frank was to be got. What did the FRU do? Fuck all!! Why? I don’t know except I know they could have done a lot. It certainly helped Martin though! A little credibility restored. Derry to the best of my knowledge only ever caught and dealt with one real informer and that one was certainly not Paddy Flood. Why is that? Bad LUCK Martin would argue.

If you listen carefully to the Freddie tapes of his conversation at the Culloden hotel with the journalists, he neatly avoids the question in relation to who killed Franko. I wonder why? Perhaps that was one step too far even for brassed neck Freddie.

I know Frank was murdered by a British Agent (Freddy Scappaticci) accompanied or at least directed by McGuinness and others. It was not just bad luck that killed Frank he was a victim of collusion. Last year I had the privilege of speaking with his son, he is a victim and he deserves the truth, not Sinn Fein/Brits version of it…

Today, we know that Frank did return to Derry and we know from his family that McGuinness did have some part to play in his decision to meet with members of the PIRA just over the border into Donegal. Indeed there is not much we don’t know about that murder. We know the police and others including the Cook report investigated McGuinness. We know the police had prepared a case for prosecution (Operation Taurus) and were confident in their case, indeed unusually for terrorist related offences, the police had the confidence of three witnesses prepared to give evidence against Martin, that was bad luck, Eh, Martin. No problem though his luck suddenly changed for the better. We now know that in a similar way to Stormontgate the decision to proceed with the case was NOT in the public interest and it was suggested to the police in a secret document now in the public domain that McGuinness was shortly to meet with the Govt to discuss the future. The Police were told to back off McGuinness. The case was dropped. It looks like Martin's luck had changed? Not bad except this activity is not justice, this is collusion.

I could go on about this chapter in McGuinness/Hegarty incident but in legal correspondence (i.e. when the MOD attempted to prosecute me and the Sunday Times) the Treasury solicitor makes reference to matters affecting National Security in relation to the Frank Hegarty case. Well the man's dead, the weapons recovered, what’s left? Ah, Say no more lads, your secrets are safe with me!

In recent times individuals from the security forces, who have their own agenda, have provided certain documents to others which I have seen sight off and which if authentic - and I have no reason to doubt their authenticity - would indicate that Martin McGuinness has had more than his fair share of bad luck.

http://cryptome.org/ingram-spies.htm

author by okpublication date Sun May 28, 2006 18:30Report this post to the editors

Evidence heard

This week the Inquiry heard from the following witnesses:

Martin Ingram (former Corporal, Force Research Unit and 121 Intelligence Section); David (Director of Intelligence - Northern Ireland); Officer Y (Sergeant, 121 Intelligence Section) and Soldier S (Private, Motor Platoon, Support Company, 1st Battalion Parachute Regiment).

Summary of Evidence

Monday 12 May 2003 Martin Ingram

Tuesday 13 May 2003 David

Wednesday 14 May 2003 Officer Y, Soldier S

Thursday 15 May 2003 Soldier S

A full transcript of the proceedings is available at http://www.bloody-sunday-inquiry.org.uk.

Numbers in square brackets refer to the code given to a particular document by the Inquiry.

INTRODUCTION

This week the Inquiry heard from former members of the army’s secret Force Research Unit (FRU), the former Director of Intelligence for Northern Ireland (MI5) and Soldier S of Support Company. Soldier S admits to firing twelve rounds on Bloody Sunday.

Martin Ingram

Corporal, Force Research Unit

Made Statements to the Inquiry on 26 July 2002 [KI0002.0001], 10 February 2003 [KI0002.0032] and 17 March 2003 [KI0002.0040].

Martin Ingram is a former member of the British Army’s secret agent handling/intelligence section in Northern Ireland, the Force Research Unit (FRU). Martin Ingram is not his real name.

He joined the Intelligence Corps in 1980. In 1981, after training, he joined 121 Intelligence Section as a Lance Corporal. 121 Intelligence Section were based at Head Quarters Northern Ireland (HQNI). The unit supplied intelligence support for the General Officer Commanding (GOC) and Commander Land Forces (CLF). They were attached to G2, the intelligence wing of HQNI. G2 desk officers were graded GSO2 or GSO3 and were captains or majors.

Mr. Ingram began in the 3 Special Collation Team (SCT) whose sole function was inputting RUC Special Branch intelligence reports, known as SB50s or RIRACS, onto the army 3702 computer system. This was a boring job done in shifts, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. The RUC did not want their reports filed on computer so they were not told of the practice.

SB50s were photocopied and circulated within G2. The originals were formally recorded in the HQNI Registry by being entered in the MoD Form 102 books. This was the official procedure whereby a secret document is recorded as having been received and filed in a particular place. The photocopies were not entered because the SB50s should not have been copied or the information entered in the computer.

Mr. Ingram spent 2 or 3 months in the SCT before he engineered himself a more interesting posting in G2. After a brief spell working on Loyalist paramilitaries he was transferred to the Derry Republican desk. Officer Y was Mr. Ingram’s immediate superior whilst on the Loyalist Desk. Mr. Ingram had a level one password which gave him full access to all the intelligence on the 3702 database. This meant he had access to source material from RUC Special Branch, the FRU and some MI5 and MI6 material. MI5 and MI6 source reports were not entered onto the database but in some cases the actual intelligence from these source reports was entered. At the time MI5 was not a big player in running agents in Northern Ireland.

All HQNI intelligence staff had level one passwords. This was between 10 and 20 people. Mr. Ingram was a collator and worked directly to his GSO2 desk officer. He would see perhaps 6 or 7 files a week and these might contain one or two Security Service documents. He saw these files so that he would be kept up to date on developments. MI5 had very few agents in Northern Ireland at this time. So far as he was aware there was no sifting of documents before they were circulated within G2.

There was also a personality card index which contained detailed information of people of interest. Martin McGuinness would certainly have been on the index. In addition to personal information it also referred to relevant intelligence reports.

Report on Bloody Sunday

When he started at the Derry desk he knew nothing about Derry so began reading intelligence files and searching the computer for information. The GSO2s, senior officers, relied on their junior NCOs (Non commissioned officers) to keep them briefed. The collators were their eyes and ears. Mr. Ingram therefore decided to earn brownie points by preparing a paper on Bloody Sunday. He did this as an informal project in his own time as part of his familiarisation with Derry’s history. Junior NCOs often did such projects. Bloody Sunday was by far the most significant event to have occurred in the city. The report he wrote was based on information he obtained from the computer. He simply did a search on the words ‘Bloody Sunday’. It worked like a modern Internet web search giving a list of titles with intelligence or information on Bloody Sunday. These titles then provided access to the full text of source reports which had been entered on the database.

The paper he wrote was three or four pages long and he would have given it to his GSO2 Major. The purpose was to collate the material rather than come to any conclusions. It would have gone into the filing system and may have been archived. Mr. Ingram also recalled there was a file called Bloody Sunday in the G2 registry. There were in excess of 50 documents in it.

At the time the intelligence coverage of Derry was good. Mr. Ingram often visited Derry with his GSO2. SB50s relating to Derry would be copied to Force Research Unit north, also known as Force Research Office (North).

Force Research Unit (FRU)

In 1982 Mr. Ingram was posted to the north detachment of the Force Research Office (FRO(N)). The FRU was divided into three sections: Head quarters West, based in Derry; FRO(N), also in Derry and FRO(W) in Belfast. He was promoted to Corporal and his job was to analyse and collate reports generated by FRU agent handlers following their meetings with Derry agents. His detachment commander was a major who subsequently died on the Chinook helicopter which crashed on the Mull of Kintyre. Because of a shortage of agent handlers Mr. Ingram did act as a co-handler for some agents. He saw intelligence from all agencies with relevance to his area.

The material Mr. Ingram saw, whether at HQNI or at FRO(N), indicated the Derry Civil Rights Association and the Derry Young Hooligans had been infiltrated by the security forces in 1972. He could not say now whether this was by the army or RUC. He saw material dating from 1972 and recent material. Even in 1982 information was still coming in about Bloody Sunday. It was a subject agents were always asked about when they were debriefed. Mr. Ingram said only about 10% of the material gathered in an agent debriefing would be disseminated in the form of source reports. The full details would be in the relevant contact reports.

The purpose of an intelligence report is to turn information from an agent into useful intelligence. This was done by an agent handler commenting on the information and relating it to other information such that the reader of the report would gain some insight into a particular issue.

Martin McGuinness on Bloody Sunday

At no time did Mr. Ingram come across any information suggesting Martin McGuinness had fired a weapon on Bloody Sunday. He did however see documents suggesting Martin McGuinness was under surveillance during the march. He was positive he saw sighting reports regarding Bloody Sunday and that Martin McGuinness featured in these. He said he could not be certain which unit had performed the surveillance. There were reports from local units but there was probably a specialist surveillance unit there as well. The names often changed and he did not know which specialist unit would have been operating in Derry at the time. However a unit like the Military Reconnaissance Force (MRF) or 14 Signals Intelligence would have been there.

He could not remember where Martin McGuinness was sighted. FRO(N) had an ongoing interest in Mr. McGuinness so Mr. Ingram remembered seeing the sighting reports about him. He also saw reports on others but cannot remember who they were. The reports mainly focused on those McGuinness was seen with. Photographs would almost certainly have been taken as well although he did not see any. He believed the reports he saw concerned surveillance from the observation posts on the city walls and the Masonic Hall.

Since FRU had an ongoing interest in Mr. McGuinness, Mr. Ingram would have expected to have seen any agent reports suggesting he had fired a weapon on Bloody Sunday. He was therefore doubtful about the authenticity of the alleged 1984 Infliction report about Mr. McGuinness having confessed to firing a Thompson machine gun. He would also have expected such a report to have been talked about given McGuinness’ prominence.

Mr. Ingram now accepts that Infliction does exist but he retains doubts about the documents produced to the inquiry suggesting Mr. McGuinness fired on Bloody Sunday. He never saw any Infliction documents. He insisted however he did see MI5 intelligence reports similar to the one circulated in relation to Infliction/Mr. McGuinness/Bloody Sunday [G0109.0670]. He said there should be registry documents, similar to the MOD’s Form 102, which would allow the document to be traced and its authenticity tested.

What Happened on Bloody Sunday

Mr. Ingram’s overall assessment of the material he saw in relation to Bloody Sunday, both at HQNI and at FRO(N), was that no shots were fired at the army before they opened fire. He said there were conflicting reports, some of which suggested there had been civilian gunfire, but read as a whole the information did not support the army case that the IRA had opened fire first or that dead bodies had been secretly buried across the border. There were reports of some of the wounded being treated in the Republic. Indeed Mr. Ingram said some of the security forces’ agents were involved in ferrying people over the border. Mr. Ingram’s view, having read all the relevant intelligence, was that the army over reacted.

There was also intelligence from before the event suggesting neither the Official nor Provisional IRA intended to undertake military action on Bloody Sunday. He saw this in contact reports from agents and in an intelligence report. He could not remember if the intelligence report was an army MISR (Military Intelligence Source Report) or an RUC Special Branch SB50. He thinks it was an SB50. Mr. Ingram was involved in relocating compromised agents, such as Frank Hegarty (also known as agent 30:18). Before being relocated an agent would be thoroughly debriefed and one of the matters which would be raised would be Bloody Sunday. There was a MISR produced following a debriefing of Frank Hegarty which Mr. Ingram thinks referred to the IRA having no plans for action on Bloody Sunday.

Agents in Derry

Mr. Ingram could not remember exactly how many agents were active in Derry in January 1972 but he believed there were around 14 to 20. Furthermore agents from outside Derry would have attended the march. He saw MISRs which indicated agents from Belfast had attended and were subsequently debriefed about what had happened. He knew this because the code numbers in the documents, the army ones at least, indicated agents from Belfast were present. He believed agents from other areas would have been asked to attend by the security forces and people who happened to be agents would have been asked to attend by organisations such as the Civil Rights Association.

Retention of Documents

Mr. Ingram’s view was that original source reports from agents were never destroyed and even once an agent was deactivated their file would be retained. There were occasions on which old agents were reactivated and their old files would have to be called back.

Classified military documents were stored by reference to registry books called MOD Form 102. The books detail the life of a secret document from creation to distribution and its destruction (if that occurred). When distributed outside a unit a secret document is forwarded with a MOD Form 24 receipt. This has to be returned by the recipient. The receiving unit enters the document in their own MOD Form 102. The MOD Form 102 is itself classified and recorded in a master MOD Form 102.

Army Career

Mr. Ingram left Derry/FRO(N) in late 1984 when he was posted to deal with counter terrorism in Great Britain. In mid 1987 he was posted to Belize and on his return he requested to attend a course at Repton Manor in Ashford, Kent. This included agent running. He was then posted back to Northern Ireland at St. Angelo near Enniskillen. His posting was to augment the small detachment in response to the Enniskillen bombing. This unit was commanded by FRO(N). He remained at St. Angelo until 26 September 1990.

His last report included a recommendation for promotion from Lieutenant Colonel (now Brigadier) Kerr of the FRU. He was posted to the Ministry of Defence in London at his own request where he joined the Defence Intelligence Staff (DIS). He held an Enhanced Positive Vetting (EPV) position working primarily on the Israel and Syrian desks. EPV is the highest clearance giving access to Top Secret material.

Mr. Ingram notified Vetting of his intention to marry and this created difficulties with his clearance. He effectively had to choose between his army career and his fiancée. He therefore applied for and received premature voluntary retirement.

In a letter dated 8 May 2003 [KI0002.0043] the MoD sought to suggest Mr. Ingram did not join the FRU until late 1993 but Mr. Ingram thought this was incorrect. His major on joining the FRU was killed in the Chinook crash and therefore was not Officer Z who has provided evidence to the Inquiry. Indeed Mr. Ingram said he had a photograph of Officer Z, the deceased major and himself at an FRU reception. Mr. Ingram described the MoD as the Ministry for Disinformation.

Officer Z, in his statement [KZ0001.0001] also seeks to suggest the clerk referred to by Mr. Ingram as being at FRO(N) was in fact at HQ (W). However Mr. Ingram said his lawyers have an affidavit from the clerk where he says he was the FRO(N) clerk. There was also a female clerk who joined FRO(N) and the other clerk then went to HQ(W). In any event the two offices are very close to each other.

Mr. Ingram says he did have access to screening reports for old agents whilst at FRO(N) even though they were no longer used by the time he was in Ireland. The screening reports used to be prepared when an agent was first recruited. These were kept so that FRU could circumvent the RUC’s prohibition on recruiting new agents. New agents had to be screened unless they were former army personnel, as in the case of Brian Nelson, or were old agents being re-activated. It was to allow re-activation of old agents, without a fresh screening, that FRU kept old screening reports.

Originally agents were run on a fragmented basis with Field Intelligence NCOs (FINCOs), part of the Intelligence Corps, reporting to the local Brigade. The system was centralised by creating the FRU. The FRU took over all existing agents and therefore had to have access to all the existing agent files. For example Frank Hegarty was an agent before and after Bloody Sunday. His material was passed to FRU.

Contacting the Inquiry

In 2000 Liam Clarke of the Sunday Times contacted Greg McCartney, solicitor for the family of James Wray, on Mr. Ingram’s behalf. Mr. Ingram then supplied information to Mr. McCartney about Bloody Sunday. Mr. Ingram did this because he wanted the Inquiry to have access to all relevant information and he was suspicious that the army would not make full disclosure. This suspicion was based on his experience with the Stevens Inquiries. (Sir John Stevens, Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, has conducted three inquiries into collusion between the Northern Ireland security forces and Loyalist paramilitaries.) Mr. Ingram helped Mr. Stevens locate documents that had not been disclosed to him by the army.

Mr. Ingram was shown the documents the Inquiry has relating to Infliction. Mr. Ingram had never seen these documents before and had never heard of Infliction. He initially doubted the authenticity of the documents or whether Infliction actually existed. In any event he had never heard of the suggestion that Martin McGuinness had fired on Bloody Sunday. In May 2001 Eamonn McCann of the Sunday Tribune wrote a series of articles casting doubt on the Infliction allegation. These articles, although inaccurate in places, were based on information from Mr. Ingram.

author by linkpublication date Sun May 28, 2006 18:43Report this post to the editors

SINN FEIN'S TOP SECRET SPY.

John Cassidy

The Sunday World. Exclusive.

A British Army whistleblower today names Sinn Fein chief Martin McGuinness as a high-ranking MI6 agent.

And Martin Ingram says McGuinness's MI6 handlers actively encouraged the IRA chief to wage a bloody 'human bomb' campaign in Ulster to provoke a public backlash against the Provos.

Ingram a former agent handler in the shadowy Force Research Unit, says his claim that McGuinness, Sinn Fein's chief negotiator, was a top British mole is supported by documentary evidence.

Freddi Scappaticci was unmasked two years ago as the FRU agent 'Stakeknife' who was a senior figure in the IRA's internal seurity department, known as the 'Nutting Squad'.

link contains full text of Sunday World article

Related Link: http://cryptome.org/mcguinness-spy.htm#below
author by analysispublication date Sun May 28, 2006 20:03Report this post to the editors

The fundamental mistake is to assume that the British government's goal has been to create a political version of Republicanism, or an electorally viable Sinn Fein at the expense of an armed and capable IRA.

The British strategy was not a bait and switch but was always to defeat republicanism.

The carrot used to demolish the IRA was the promise of electoral success. It is no use repeating how this was done as we are all familiar with the mantra, 'taking the gun out of Irish politics', 'Sinn Fein the largest nationalist/all-Ireland party' etc. Such was the argument used to persuade the grassroots to follow the leadership down the path of constitutional nationalism at the expense of continuing an armed campaign. The further down that path the more it became imperative that the IRA was stood down and rendered ineffective, otherwise Sinn Fein would not progress.

For nationalists a strong party, which SF appeared to be, was attractive. But the British were not and are not interested in creating, supporting or maintaining a strong nationalist party. With or without one, as long as the IRA is laid to rest they can maintain stability in Northern Ireland, which is what they want.

The British were never colluding with republicans to boost SF, as some have thought or hoped that New Labour might be doing. The British were using SF to demolish republicanism.

It is a mistake to think that by destabilising or destroying SF and the Adams leadership that the British are shooting themselves in the foot or scoring an own goal. The British don't care about Sinn Fein or Gerry Adams, never did and never will.

The British have decommissioned the IRA, they have criminalised the IRA, they have the leadership of the Republican Movement calling for IRA men to turn themselves into British courts to face British justice, they have that same leadership nominating arch enemy Paisley for First Minister, in order to continue to implement British rule.

So why would they not pull the rug out from under republicans, after humiliating and making fools of them as they are doing? Once McGuinness well and truly falls that is it, that's all she wrote, game over.

author by Unknownpublication date Sun May 28, 2006 20:34Report this post to the editors

If this is true it will be the end of the provisional movement as we know it. If McGuinness falls, they all fall, he was too close to Adams for this not to affect him if it is true. It always seems to be the hardliners who are the traitiors, Scap was a bad boy, and McGuinness had a reputation that was the same. There is too much riding on this for it not to be true. The paper are not coming out with his name if they are not sure about it. They are standing over what they print, obviously. They aren't doing that lightly. SF will fight this tooth and nail, they have an awful lot to loose if this is true, so I expect before it's all over it should prove interesting.

author by Patpublication date Sun May 28, 2006 23:09Report this post to the editors

Have Martin & Gerry an credibility left ?

Bad enough in what we have learned of their activities towards the H Block hunger strikers.....but now this!

author by Alpublication date Sun May 28, 2006 23:42Report this post to the editors

The official statements today from Sinn Fein are very similar to the steak knife denials.

The tide has turned against Sinn Fein in southern electoral politics (down from a high of 11% to 8%)and the Brits are delivering the Coup de Grâce to the rotting remains of the provisonal movement.

It puzzles me though.... who in the provisional movement decides who lives and who dies? Steak knife lives and Donaldson dies, is there a logic to it or is somebody just flipping a coin ?

author by Joepublication date Sun May 28, 2006 23:51Report this post to the editors

There are two things we know for certain:

- Most accusations of touting are lies meant to destablize
- No authenticatable evidence has been brought forth against McGuiness

At this stage there is no reason to go all excitable about this and play in to the hands of elements that love to manipulate us.

author by Barrypublication date Sun May 28, 2006 23:59Report this post to the editors

The accusations against scap werent lies thats for damn sure . But the sinn fein defence of that British agent was certainly a tissue of lies .
McGuinness entire career of dishonesty and utter treachery directed against the republican position and the republican base itself has left him wide open to this sort of accusation whether the document is authentic or not . And thats his own fault and no-one elses .

author by Joepublication date Mon May 29, 2006 00:23Report this post to the editors

Nice... so whether it is true or not it might as well be true? Amusing, but rather weak, logic. The republican movement is winning, that is the biggest reason there are more of these tactics from its opponents. On web boards we have things called trolls. In politics these are called intelligence agencies. Crap like Martin Ingrham is just a troll by another name.

author by Barrypublication date Mon May 29, 2006 01:16Report this post to the editors

Wise up and dont insult peoples intelligence any further .

author by seedotpublication date Mon May 29, 2006 01:16Report this post to the editors

On web boards we often assess the worth of someone by how they respond to a troll. If they allow the diversion to distract from the debate then they have fallen victim and their argument is lessened.

You already have a criticism of what McGuinness has done? Why, outside of a war situation, is this less important than the rationale?

Don't Feed the Troll nor do your politics in response to ad hominem attacks.

author by Derrymanpublication date Mon May 29, 2006 01:33Report this post to the editors

The Times are now running a story on this

They don't sound too convinced, surprise surprise

Related Link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2201375,00.html
author by Chekovpublication date Mon May 29, 2006 01:43Report this post to the editors

Several people have stated that the accusation against Scappaticci is proven. Apart from his flight, which is hardly conclusive, what proof is there?

The fact that McGuiness can't sue and that Ingram is/was a British agent, makes this story highly dubious without verifiable details.

author by Skepticalpublication date Mon May 29, 2006 02:08Report this post to the editors

A British agent issues a statement attacking the reputation of a senior member of Sinn Féin, and people believe it?

Does nobody remember when a Sunday paper was carrying the story that Gerry Kelly was conducting an affair with George Mitchell's aide Martha Pope? The truth was they'd never met.

That story turned out to have originated with British Intelligence too...

I find it hard to believe that people would be so credulous to believe a story with such a dodgy source, but I suppose some people just have a problem with Sinn Féin, and so will clutch at any straw.

What next ? Gerry Adams Ate My Hamster?

author by Barrypublication date Mon May 29, 2006 02:12Report this post to the editors

The allegations against scappittici were ultimately proven by himself when ITVs cook report who were working hand in glove with the British security services released audio tapes of him talking directly to them discussing Martin McGuinness and naming various individuals and their then closely guarded roles within the IRA. Thats when he fled for the second time .

As regards this particular story the document presented by Ingram is clearly insufficient as evidence and the approach taken by Suzanne Breen today was both prudent and responsible . The actions of the Sunday World and others are extremely irresponsible and poor journalism unless they have more substantial proof to back their claims up which they dont claim to have . However reports of a relative of McGuinnesses arrest south of the border at the time of the Coshquin attack are a little more disturbing as regards the accusations presented so Im going to do a serious bit more research and verification of that part of the case before I say anything further on it .

author by Joepublication date Mon May 29, 2006 04:23Report this post to the editors

I agree that it is very odd when otherwise intelligent folks bite at this kind of security propaganda... but people like the salacious...

Just keep in mind that thousands of bureaucrats make their living engaged in smearing people... and thousands more arm-chair warriors and pretend hard-men engage in rumor mongering for a whole set of reasons (ego and money usually).

The one clear thing that people/sources like Martin Ingrham have demonstrated is an enormous capacity for deceit.

The bottom line is not to get distracted from real macro-issues by either real or pretend micro-controversies. Controveries like this make for sexy news, but in a way they are fake even in the rare occasion that they are true. They are tabloid distractions from real social conditions.

Who Gerry Kelly is sleeping with, or even whether McGuinnes is a tout should be irrelevant to what you think the political structure of the community you live in should be. Parties and leaders will come and go... and they shouldn't determine your opinions at any rate. McGuinness probably isn't a tout, and regardless no one on this board knows one way or the other.

The entire leadership of Sinn Fein could be touts and it wouldn't make British occupation any more or less moral, would it?

Besides, why is no one discussing that Tony Blair is a CIA tout? :) I have transcripts.

author by linkspublication date Mon May 29, 2006 09:24Report this post to the editors

“Ha ha ha ....,” Sinn Fein’s official spokesman said when asked to comment on the reports that McGuinness had worked for Britain’s intelligence service MI6.

“If it were the case, if MMG (McGuinness’s intials) is on the side of the unionists, then Ian Paisley should not have a problem sharing power with him,” the spokesman said.
AFP (Agence France-Presse) wire report
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060528/wl_uk_afp/nireland...64638

Interviewed in the Sunday World, Mr Ingram claimed that Mr McGuinness's MI6 handlers encouraged the IRA to go for the human bomb campaign to provoke a backlash against the Provisionals.

He suggested that the five British soldiers were sacrificed as a "means to an end". Mr Ingram said: "They play the long game, not the short game. To them solving the problems in Ireland was a marathon, not a sprint."

Yesterday, however, a security source told The Daily Telegraph that it was "nonsense" that MI6 would pursue such a strategy.

The exposure of Mr Donaldson as a British agent of 20 years standing provided evidence that Sinn Fein had been infiltrated at the highest levels. Nevertheless, for devoted republicans it would be unthinkable for Mr McGuinness to be a British spy. With Mr Adams, the Sinn Fein president, he has masterminded the party's political strategy and his republican credentials are regarded as impeccable.
DAILY TELEGRAPH
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/20....html

Mr Ingram's claims, which were published in the Irish tabloid, the Sunday World, were vehemently denied by Sinn Fein yesterday.

But the former Army intelligence officer - who handled agents within the IRA and goes under a pseudonym - says he has proof in the form of a transcript of a conversation between Mr McGuinness and an M16 handler
DAILY MAIL
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/new...=1770

author by in the Irish News todaypublication date Mon May 29, 2006 10:08Report this post to the editors

SF rubbishes ‘McGuinness spy’ claim

By Staff Reporter

Sinn Fein has dismissed as “rubbish and nonsense” claims made by a former British army intelligence officer that Martin McGuinness was a spy.

The allegations, carried in a Sunday newspaper, were made by former agent handler Martin Ingram.

Two years ago Ingram identified Belfast republican Freddie Scappaticci as the British agent Stakeknife within the IRA – an allegation the west Belfast man denied before fleeing his home.

The claim also follows the unmasking last year of Denis Donaldson, Sinn Fein’s former head of administration at Stormont, as a spy.

Some news organisations yesterday identified Mr McGuinness as the person at the centre of the latest allegations, while others did not.

The Irish News is naming Mr McGuinness on the basis that he is a public figure who needs to be given the opportunity to respond to the claims which have appeared in a number of outlets.

A Sunday newspaper yesterday printed a transcript of a conversation which Ingram claimed was between Mr McGuinness and an MI6 handler. In it the pair discuss the IRA’s ‘human bomb’ strategy, which claimed the lives of civilians and British soldiers.

The transcript does not mention Mr McGuinness but it does refers to code name ‘J118’, which Ingram claimed was the Sinn Fein member.

While Ingram is a well known member of the Force Research Unit, he claims that the transcript was taken from MI6.

The reports show a transcript of a purported conversation between the former assembly education minister and an MI6 handler but there is no mention of the tape from which the transcript was taken.

Ingram has made similar allegations before on internet sites.

A Sinn Fein spokesman last night firmly denied claims that Mr McGuinness had worked for MI6 during the 1990s.

He also rejected claims that the allegation was supported by documentary evidence.

“We have heard this all before. It is rubbish. It is nonsense,” he said.

“Anybody with half a wit will treat it with the contempt it rightly deserves.”

Jim McDowell, northern editor of the Sunday World which published the allegations, last night responded to Sinn Fein’s criticism.

“If Mr McGuinness or anyone in the IRA or Sinn Fein has any beef, they should take it up with the man who made the claims,” he said.

“The Sunday World is reporting a claim and the same agent who made the allegation does have some street credibility. After all, Ingram was the whistleblower on Scappaticci.”

• unruffled: Sinn Fein chief negotiator Martin McGuinness in Healey Park, Omagh, yesterday for the first-round Championship match between Tyrone and Derry
PICTURE: Ann McManus (click link for photo)

Related Link: http://www.irishnews.com/images/29052006/news1.jpg
author by further in the Irish Newspublication date Mon May 29, 2006 10:12Report this post to the editors

Provos’ proxy bombs

By Staff Reporter

A Sunday newspaper yesterday printed a transcript of a conversation which Martin Ingram claimed was between Mr McGuinness and an MI6 handler. In it the pair discuss the IRA’s ‘human bomb’ strategy.

In the first such attack Patsy Gillespie (42) – a Catholic kitchen worker in the British army’s Fort George base – died after being forced to transport an IRA bomb to an army checkpoint in Derry in October 1990.

The father-of-three, from Derry, was tied to a vehicle containing a 1,000lb bomb and ordered to drive the device to the Coshquin border checkpoint while his family were held hostage. The blast killed Mr Gillespie and six soldiers.

On the same night in Newry the IRA forced a 65-year-old garage worker to drive a van loaded with explosives to a border checkpoint. He escaped and shouted a warning before the explosion.

McGuinness is not an agent says Sinn Fein

By Staff Reporter

Sinn Fein last night denied claims by a former army intelligence officer that its chief negotiator Martin McGuinness was a British spy. The allegation, which was carried in a Sunday newspaper, was made by former agent handler Martin Ingram.

Mr Ingram was the man who two years ago identified Belfast republican Freddie Scappaticci as the prized British agent Stakeknife – an allegation Scappaticci denied before fleeing his home in the west of the city.

It also followed the unmasking last year of Sinn Fein’s former head of administration at Stormont, Denis Donaldson, as a spy.

He was gunned down at a remote cottage in Glenties, Co Donegal, last month.

A Sinn Fein spokesman dismissed claims that Mr McGuinness, who admitted in May 2001 in a submission to the Bloody Sunday Inquiry that he was the IRA’s second-in-command in Derry in 1971, worked for MI6 during the 1990s.

He also rejected claims that the allegation against Mr McGuinness was supported by documentary evidence.

“We have heard this all before. It is rubbish. It is nonsense. Anybody with half a wit will treat it with the contempt it rightly deserves,” he said.

DUP MEP Jim Allister said: “Although I don’t wish to intrude on Sinn Fein’s troubles I imagine there will no doubt be a lot of reflection, questioning and uncertainty.

“It will be interesting to watch the spin of Sinn Fein in dealing with these allegations although better they deal with them with spin rather than other methods previously used.

“I do not know if the allegations are true.”

Mr McGuinness has been one of the most influential figures in the modern republican movement.

Married to wife Bernie and a father-of four, he became involved in politics at an early age.

He was active in the civil rights movement in Derry in 1968 and joined Sinn Fein in 1970.

When arrested in 1973 on terrorism charges he said: “We have fought against the killing of our people. I am a member of Oglaigh na Eireann and very, very proud of it.”

He would later tell the Bloody Sunday Inquiry of his role as second-in-command of the IRA – a move illustrative of his willingness to talk openly about his past.

Increasingly, political strategy bec-ame important to Sinn Fein and Mr McGuinness led the way as the party's chief negotiator in discussions surrounding the Good Friday Agreement.

He is MP for Mid-Ulster and in 1999 became education minister.

Despite criticism from opposition parties, Mr McGuinness was widely acclaimed for his work in this role.

As devolution dissolved in October 2002 amid allegations of IRA spying Mr McGuinness remained the public face of republicanism and voiced the confidence and assertion among the nationalist community.

“We know who we are, we’re Irish, we are proud of it,” he said.

author by linkspublication date Mon May 29, 2006 10:53Report this post to the editors

Political friends and foes alike were last night pondering sensational allegations that Sinn Fein negotiator Martin McGuinness is a British spy, and asking: where's the proof?

The DUP was last night planning to ask the Government if it can verify whether documents being used to allege that McGuinness was an M16 agent are authentic.

Sinn Fein has rubbished the claims by a former Army intelligence officer that the documents show Mr McGuinness was a British spy.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=...92950

For more than three decades, Martin McGuinness has been one of the most controversial figures in Irish politics and one of the republican movement's most prominent members.

The 56-year-old, Sinn Fein's chief negotiator, is married with four children. He has been MP for Mid Ulster since 1997 and grew up in the Bogside in Londonderry.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=...92951

author by Barrypublication date Mon May 29, 2006 17:26Report this post to the editors

with Johnathon Powell and Mo Mowlam

http://cryptome.sabotage.org/mcguinness-taps.htm

author by Harrypublication date Mon May 29, 2006 17:53Report this post to the editors

Big deal, so what. No story, small beer.

author by Barrypublication date Mon May 29, 2006 18:14Report this post to the editors

please explain ?

author by tom eilepublication date Mon May 29, 2006 19:40Report this post to the editors

I just read the transcripts you linked to. I couldn't see anything in them proving McGuiness was or is a spy -a lick arse yes ,but we knew that anyway. IMO a lot of the spy stuff coming out detracts from a serious political analysis of the defeat of the republican campaign. The Brits obviously infiltrated republicanism at a high level ,but they were only able to sustain that because of a certain political degeneration within the movement.
There is a prevaling mood of defeat and betrayal within militant republicanism - it was palpable at the public meeting in Dublin last week . That meeting posed the question of the future of republicanism . If there is to be a future for republicanism ,it should surely be based on a serious and comprehensive review of what went wrong ( and right )over the last thirty years. Is it time for another republican congress?

author by Harrypublication date Mon May 29, 2006 20:12Report this post to the editors

Attempting to dredge new life out a dead - late, terminated, extinct, defunct, passed away, kicked the bucket, six feet under, growing daisies, passed its sell by date – wrong story.

(And ‘tom eile’ wants to re-invent the ‘Republican Congress’ on the back of it.)

If I was one of the spooks assigned to helpfully push debate along on threads like this, it is right about now that I would contribute the following (or something like it):

"The fact that the Ingram story is wrong proves how the devious brits are trying to shield Sinn Fein from the rightous anger of the people. It is an attempt to discredit the exposure of these touts. Why this only serves to bolster the posion of the brit spies who run Sinn Fein and have done so since time-immemorial. These traitors, etc, etc. Blah, blah, blah…"

Or could you improve on that Barry? Add your own spin? I bet you could.

author by Fear Morpublication date Mon May 29, 2006 20:14Report this post to the editors

I agree, McGuinness is a victim of British dirty tricks. I believe that Scap and Donaldson were sacrificed to show that there were touts in and around the Leadership, then they could point the finger at whoever they felt like destroying and they would be believed. The Leadership have only themselves to blame, because when you are on your knees the Brits will keep you there and Republicanism has never been more on it's knees than in recent times, culminating in the Nomination of Paisley as first Minster

author by Harrypublication date Mon May 29, 2006 20:18Report this post to the editors

Now there is a variation I hadn't thought of - it’s the victim's fault. Good one.

author by Fear Morpublication date Mon May 29, 2006 20:38Report this post to the editors

Of course it is! When a General leads his army into a trap, then it's his fault.

author by Agent Provacatuerpublication date Mon May 29, 2006 21:03Report this post to the editors

Ask yourself this Question after the next Big Bang goes off in London or Ireland. Who gains from this? The so-called Terrorist or the Thugs in Office? Agents Provacatuer are as old as time. Every Warmonger needs a Pretext for his Imperial Adventures, otherwise he is just another invading Barbarian. The British are no different than the Bushites here in Amerika. If they don't have their reason to be in Ireland then their Occupation is threatened. So they resort to the same Cloak and Dagger game using the Big Bang to create their Pretext for Occupation.

author by Barrypublication date Mon May 29, 2006 21:36Report this post to the editors

Harry your repetitive and predictable defence of McGuinness carries no more weight than the unattributable document that appeared in yesterdays papers . But thats what party hacks are there for I suppose . Theres no more evidence to suggest it is wrong than it is right and as Ive pointed out elsewhere Suzanne Breens approach yesterday was the correct one and good journalistic practice . For the record I personally do believe this former British minister and a number of his colleagues to have been British agents of long standing , but that belief does not stem in anyway from Ingrams articles or this unattributable document yesterday . Ive been pretty much convinced of it long before I ever heard of Ingram .

The purpose of my linking to the transcripts was to simply to illustrate McGuinnesses working relationship with the British occupier , someone he portrays as an honest broker in Ireland as opposed to a colonial agressor. His efforts on their behalf have gone so far as to accuse republicans who dont agree with his analysis of the occupier as an honest broker as being themselves British agents . It is the nature of that relationship , Sinn Feins working relationship with British intelligence and their deliverance by stealth and deception of British counter insurgency strategy in its totality which has demoralized republican seperatism to the point were the realisation of defeat makes not only Ingrams tittle tattle believable but frankly of little consequence other than a novelty value which has passed its sell by date long ago . The Sinn Fein leadership has spent decades facilitating British interests and strategy in Ireland to the point were republicans disgust with them has led to a total break down of faith and trust in their personal qualities and bona fides .

And it is that issue which Tom and others have wisely suggested should be concentrated on in this affair and addressed through political debate and action rather than Martin Ingrams attempts to be a central figure (and even more worryingly lead the debate on this entire issue ) . And which as a faithful sinn fein hack you , quite predictably , arrogantly and contemptuously dismiss . The reality of the total and utter defeat at every level of the seperatist project and the necessity to resurrect it yet again .

As regards Tom your proposal for a Congress is a good one . Republicans must explore every avenue . Its doubtful Sinn Fein will participate and will most likely confine themselves to the predictable attempts to undermine such a project however they can , perhaps even attempt to convince people its the work of securocrats . Luckily in the current climate they arent allowed to threaten to shoot us any more for advocating it and lets hope it stays that way .

Asides and away from the recent meetings 32CSM members have been discussing and formulating proposals on the issue of republican unity and whats to be done about precisely the issues youve raised . Hopefully such proposals wil be brought into the open quite soon and people given the opportunity to put them into practice. But regardless of Ingrams sensationalism and Sinn Feins sneers the republican project must be got back on its feet and put in motion towards its objectives . The objectives Sinn Fein have clearly abandoned .

author by charliepublication date Tue May 30, 2006 01:30Report this post to the editors

The consequences of this story being true would be the beginning of the end of British rule in Ireland as well as an unprecendeted political and constitutional crisis in Britain itself.It's not true though and the real story here is the evidence of continued political policing.That's serious enough and it's a pity it isn't mentioned.

author by Harrypublication date Tue May 30, 2006 02:21Report this post to the editors

The following is typical of batty Barry analysis:

“The unattributable [Ingram] document …..is no more ….. wrong than it is right.” However, drones the sage, many circumlocutions later, “I’ve been pretty much convinced of it long before I ever heard of Ingram.”

In other words, as far as Barry is concerned this British spook has confirmed Barry’s conclusions, made up of thoughts constructed out of personal contemplation, but Barry cannot say that he and the spook are of one mind, because it would make him (Barry, not the spook) look stupid. In other words Martin McGuinness is a British agent but the proof provided by the wayward 007 merchant is neither here nor there – a bit like Barry himself. It may be true, and I (Barry) am convinced it is, or again it may not, even though I (Barry) am still convinced it is.

Is this the calibre of analysis in the organisation Barry represents? Good luck with the “proposals [that “hopefully”] will be brought into the open quite soon”. Far from denouncing this as “the work of securocrats”, I would say they would be treated with mild disinterest – if you (Barry) get the opportunity to apply your crayons to them.

author by Barrypublication date Tue May 30, 2006 03:08Report this post to the editors

My observation on the Adams McGuinness leadership delivering Ulsterisation , Normalisation, Criminalisation , and the manner in which they delivered it formed the basis of my conclusions years ago. Not Martin Ingram , I made that very clear. He is as irrelevant to my conclusions as you are .
To support your defence of McGuinness and the rest you now bizarrely cling onto Ingram ( after telling people to ignore him a dozen times) while ignoring the infinitely more substantial matter of British counter insurgency strategy and its successful implementation in full . That is Ulsterisation , Normalisation , Criminalisation while making some form of British rule acceptable . The counter insurgency strategy devised by Glover , Oatley and others in the mid 1970s to defeat militant republicanism in Ireland which cost the lives of 10 hungerstrikers and 100s of others who opposed it . You dont want to talk about that . You now just want to talk about Martin Ingram , after I remarked his so called evidence was unattributable and little more than sensationalist titlle tattle that so far hasnt been proven .

So carry on with your fixation on Martin Ingram . Sensible republicans have moved on .

author by Michael Smithpublication date Tue May 30, 2006 09:45Report this post to the editors

A very interesting article by David Sharrock in today’s Times on allegations by Martin Ingram, a former British Army agent, that Martin McGuinness was secretly working for MI6. There will of course be a great deal of scepticism surrounding these allegations but Ingram is not the first to have made them. They have also been made in the past by sources in the then RUC, although I must say I cannot remember them being published before. The first question to ask is how would RUC officers and British Army intelligence agents get to know if McGuinness was an MI6 agent. That sort of information would have been very tightly held, and what was MI6 doing in Northern Ireland anyway. It is the foreign intelligence service so in theory should not be involved in northern Ireland. McGuinness himself has refused to comment but the story has been predictably dismissed by Sinn Fein, who said: “We have heard this all before,” a spokesman said. “It is rubbish. It is nonsense.” Indeed we have heard this before. But it is unlikely to go away and strange as it may seem there is interesting evidence that some might see as backing up Ingram’s claims.

Firstly, MI6 was heavily involved in northern Ireland in the 1970s, 1980s and into the 1990s, in the early stages of the peace process. John Major and Tony Blair tend to get most of the credit for the secret talks that led eventually to the current situation in Ireland where – despite the existence of a good deal of dissent among Loyalist and Republican hardliners - there is general acceptance on both sides of the divide that politics is the way forward. But in fact the credit for starting the process should go to Ted Heath, something that was sadly lacking from the obituaries that marked his death last year. It was Heath who sent the experienced MI6 officer Frank Steele into Northern Ireland in early 1971 to “talk to the street communities” – a euphemism for contacting the terrorists and finding a way out of the deteriorating situation.

Why an MI6 officer? Well during the retreat from empire, MI6 became expert at “parallel diplomacy”, setting up secret backchannels to the terrorists/liberation movements who were attempting to secure independence from Britain. The use of backchannels by MI6 is described in detail in my book The Spying Game, but this quote from a senior MI6 officer published in the book sums it up:

“Firstly, if you have an undeclared back-channel, which carries with it the kind of trust which a front channel of politicians meeting openly in order to move one step forward in negotiations can’t possibly carry - because each knows the other has his own agenda - it is easy to develop that to the point where you can have some basis for trusting what the other person’s telling you. Because they’re not completely committed to it. If they say, ‘Look, this is the way it’s going to be as far as our party’s concerned. I’m telling you this off the record. There is no comeback on me if it doesn’t turn out as well,’ then it’s much easier to develop a concept of both sides going a little further than it is possible to go in an open negotiation. Secondly, you can verify what is being said because you have got the intelligence. So when you are in quasi-negotiation with the other side in fact you are also running intelligence sources into them and penetrating them, and when they say, ‘This is the situation,’ you also have some means of judging whether or not they’re telling you something that isn’t a lie. It makes it a little more solid foundation to help to resolve conflicts.”

There is some evidence that Steele had previously been involved in similar talks with the Mau Mau in Kenya. At any event, his real purpose for being in Northern Ireland was to set up a backchannel to the IRA. In early 1972, a year after arriving there, and only days after Bloody Sunday, Steele made contact with Frank Morris, a senior member of the Provisional IRA’s Derry Brigade, with whom he had a number of meetings during which they discussed the IRA’s aims and what they would be prepared to accept as a solution. UK government officials went so far as to express concern that these talks were “too close to negotiations”, against which the government had of course set its face.

In June 1972, the IRA called on the British government to hold talks. The suggestion that the IRA did this came from the young commander of the Derry Brigade Martin McGuinness, who had joined the Provisionals from the “stickies”, the Official IRA. McGuinness had spent six months in the Official IRA before defecting to the Provos because they were far more effective. The offer of talks was dismissed in public but privately followed up and Steele, accompanied by a senior UK official Philip Woodfield, the deputy secretary in the Northern Ireland Office, met Gerry Adams and another senior IRA member secretly at an IRA safe house in County Donegal to set up talks in London at the Cheyne Walk home of the then junior Northern Ireland Minister Paul Channon which were attended by among others, Adams and McGuinness.

Those talks led nowhere. But the contacts continued and Steele was succeeded in his role as the main UK contact by another MI6 officer Michael Oatley, known to the IRA as Mountain Climber, who remained the trusted contact point throughout the Thatcher era, even when publicly Thatcher was insisting “we do not talk to terrorists”. There was of course deep scepticism within the British Army, MI5 and RUC Special Branch over the worth of such contacts. Oatley’s main contact within the IRA was Martin McGuinness and it was McGuinness and Oatley who met in 1990 and again in 1991 at what is now - to my mind wrongly - perceived as the start of the peace process. So not only was it McGuinness who first publicly suggested talks, he was also the main IRA contact for the two MI6 officers - Steele and Oatley - who set up and nurtured the backchannel from the 1970s to the 1990s. That is why there has been so much suspicion over the years – always denied by Sinn Fein - that McGuinness was an MI6 agent.

Investigative journalist Michael Smith is the British Press Awards specialist writer of the year. He writes on defence and intelligence for The Sunday Times and has broken many exclusives, not least the Downing Street Memos.
TIMES ONLINE

author by Harrypublication date Tue May 30, 2006 10:30Report this post to the editors

"Michael Smith....... writes on defence and intelligence for The Sunday Times", the public relations house journal of the British intelligence services. Smith alleges that Martin McGuinness is one of his colleagues. The phraseology is a dead giveaway: "strange as it may seem there is interesting evidence that some might see as backing up Ingram’s claims."

Yeah, right.

(Barry's ability to misinterpret 100% what I wrote and his attempt to disguise the fact that he is a slave to the murky world of cloak and dagger is a continuing testament to his powers of observation.)

author by Claim and counter claimpublication date Tue May 30, 2006 11:02Report this post to the editors

"I believe it's nonsense," a former Northern Ireland Office security official told the Belfast Telegraph.

"I was working at the highest level and I never ever saw anything (to suggest McGuinness was an agent)," a former senior Special Branch officer told the Belfast Telegraph.

"That (having McGuinness as an agent) would be the jewel in the crown," a senior police source said.

Nameless, faceless securocrats are everywhere, Harry.

Related Link: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=...93038
author by Harrypublication date Tue May 30, 2006 12:39Report this post to the editors

Journalist
Hello James, Ed Hack here.

Security source
Oh Hello Ed, what can I do for you?

Ed
I am doing a piece on the McGuinness story and I need to add in a few quotes from senior security sources. Could I ask you a few questions, off the record of course, usual conditions.

James
Yes, happy to oblige, off the record, go ahead. Fascinating story.

Ed
Were you aware if Martin McGuinness was an MI6 agent?

James
I can’t say it ever came up in conversation. I must say, if he was, he hid it very well. Did his fair share of shootin’ you know. Good cover of course. I was working at the highest level and I never ever saw anything. That would be the jewel in the crown. Personally I believe it's nonsense but don’t let that spoil the story. Mix it up a bit if you like. It will cause a chortle or two.

Ed
As always, thanks, will do.

author by pat cpublication date Tue May 30, 2006 13:07Report this post to the editors

I just cant this seriously. Ok, I accept that the Republican Movement was infiltrated at a high level by several spies, some probably still in place.

BUT:

How was it advancing British policy when McGuinness as a member of the Army Council approved the bombing of the Grand Hotel and the attempted assassination of the British Cabinet in 1984? Was the bomb carefully calculated so that it would only put Tebbitt on a stretcher rather than kill him?

How was it advancing British policy when McGuinness as a member of the Army Council approved the mortaring of Downing Street and the attempted assassination of the British Cabinet in 1991? Was a mortar aimed to richochet off a tree and only shower the Cabinet with glas rather than kill them?

I could mention other actions as well. Beware of seeing all history as conspiracy.

author by Harrypublication date Tue May 30, 2006 13:20Report this post to the editors

Following from above, the 32 County Sovereignty Movement appears to have been penetrated at a fairly high level. Does that mean that the misguided individuals who are members are all British agents or that its policy is driven by the British Foreign Office? No of course it does not.

But it does mean that those with a cloak and dagger view of politics and the past are doomed to manipulation at every turn by tittle-tattle, paranoia and conspiracy theories – it leads to catatonic cul-de-sac politics, irrelevancy and total absorption in the tall tales that wend their way around the Internet.

Get outside and suck up some sunshine.

author by Jerry Corneliuspublication date Tue May 30, 2006 14:28Report this post to the editors

Spy claims nonsense - McGuinness

Martin McGuinness described British agent claims as "hooey"
Sinn Fein's Martin McGuinness has rubbished a claim in a Sunday tabloid that he was a British spy.
Speaking at Stormont for the first time since the allegation, Mr McGuinness said it was "a load of hooey" and "total nonsense".

The allegation was made by a former intelligence officer who uses the pseudonym Martin Ingram.

However, Mr McGuinness said he believed that elements of the DUP were behind the claims.

He claimed the motive was to try to undermine attempts to restore power-sharing.

Mr McGuinness said that DUP MP William McCrea made a similar claim in the House of Commons in Feburary which was "widely ignored".

Asked if he was 100% no evidence to support the claim would ever be produced, he said he was 1,000,000% confident.

"I have worked all of my adult life as an Irish republican. Many of my comrades have been killed and I of course knew many of them.

"So under no circumstances will I ever be concerned about anybody throwing anything up at me which will stick against me."

The DUP's Gregory Campbell said his party had nothing to gain from the claims against Mr McGuinness.

He said his party was opposed to the republican movement as a result of its "illegal and criminal" activities and whether or not senior members were agents was irrelevant.

Related Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/5029768.stm
author by brian wpublication date Tue May 30, 2006 14:56Report this post to the editors

the implications of these allegations have left any irish person "no matter what political spectrum they are from" gutted.
although i would not speculate on the claims i find it hard to believe anyone would question the integrety of martin mc guinness,
can barry be serious! did we all miss something he didn't?
and harry if what barry says is such bs why would you put weight to it by acknowledgement of it?
the truth is out there...

author by Gail Walkerpublication date Tue May 30, 2006 15:52Report this post to the editors

Shadowy world
By Gail Walker

Can it really have come as a surprise to the republican movement that the MI6 agent operating at a high-level in their ranks has been named as Martin McGuinness?

I don't think so.

After all, those creatures known for years as the republicans' best friends - the dogs in the street - have heard that rumour circulating for some time.

Related Link: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/opinion/story.js...93128
author by Willi Munzenbergpublication date Tue May 30, 2006 16:07Report this post to the editors

If you dig far enough then you will find that Tom Barry was a British agent. Why didnt he finish off the 1,200 surviving Brits at Crossbarry? Why did he let them retreat?

Did you know that James Connolly was recruited by MI5 while he was in the BA? They got him to come up with this Socialist stuff to divide Republicans!

author by Philpublication date Tue May 30, 2006 16:26Report this post to the editors

That's the purpose of these allegations. What about innocent until proven guilty? I believe that McGuinness is the victim of Dirty Tricks, but I also believe that Republicans in the future should think twice about labeling opponents of their political strategy as Brit Agents.

author by Barrypublication date Tue May 30, 2006 17:48Report this post to the editors

very little , or basically none to be precise . And without substance that individual cant be allowed to lead this particular debate within republicanism .

But the question as to how the republican movement came to adopt British intelligences counter insurgency strategy as their own has not been answered by McGuiness or anyone else in Sinn Fein . And adopt British strategy they have .

Still unanswered is the question as to how McGuiness and Adams against strong internal opposition in the IRA forced upon it a single internal security unit comprised entirely of British agents and informers ( this internal opposition culminated in a coup attempt against Adams by Ivor Bell and Dan McCann which was thwarted thanks to Scap and the ISU).
When one of its senior members Eamonn Collins went supergrass in 86 , a few years after its creation it should have been dissolved immediately . But no , it remained privy to the IRAs deepest secrets all over the entire country and with the ability to gather intelligence at every level , in every area about every volunteer and operation throughout the struggle with devastating consequences. Its members were never rotated . Collins was able to walk from the dock of a British court after withdrawing his evidence against nearly a dozen members of a SArmagh/ Newry based IRA unit that was decimating the crown forces in Newry in a series of audacious attacks ( worryingly the only innocent civilians that died at this units hands were after the informer collins wrongly identified them as plain clothes crown forces , which he admitted). The fact is though Collins withdrew his evidence only after the large number of men hed put inside were advised by their leadership , Adams and McGuinness , to plead guilty to lesser charges which still carried severe sentences . As soon as they followed McGuinness and Adams advice Collins withdrew and walked straight back to his home on the republican Barcroft estate and brazened it out , just like scap and just like Donaldson brazenly remained in Ireland . He carried on sharing the home of his wife who was secretary of sinn fein locally . All sinn feins private business , minutes and notes were at his disposal . This may seem dreadful security but then again thanks to Martin and the big lad MI5 was in charge of IRA security so we shouldnt be surprised . Oddly too Collins as a member of this nutting squad had seen it betray assurances given to even the pettiest of informers that they wouldnt be killed , and killed they were despite having done little if any damage . Collins had wrought devastation and removed one of the IRAs most effective units in Ireland , yet he accepted their assurances and brazened it out in Barcroft yards from the homes of men hed destroyed as an untouchable. He wasnt even debriefed never mind interrogated . Scap and the boys left him alone despite the fact Collins must have told the British everything about them . Unsurprisingly from what we now know the British had little interest in Collins grassing on the Internal security people , just the operators in Newry who were decimating their ranks in the town .Collins only met his death 14 years later in an unrelated dispute .

Alongside Collins in charge of IRA internal security we had Scappittici ,(enoughs been written about this character who like Eammon Collins felt safe enough to brazen it out in a republican estate and Sinn Fein stood by to the last). Alongside this Brit agent we had another downright scumbag , Jim McCarthy , who is named in the informer Martin McGartlands book as Scaps right hand man in Belfast and one of his interrogators who was present during McGartlands seemingly miraculous escape just before he was to be brought to the border for south armagh people to talk to. McCarthy was imprisoned in Long Kesh on minor hi-jacking charges during the blanket no wash protest . True to form he squeaky booted immediately and in return for minor privileges such as Mars bars and being allowed watch "top of the pops" of an evening he took a position as one of the hated prison orderlies in Long Kesh . These were the lowlifes the screws sent onto the wings to asist them in their dirty work of torturing the blanketmen , throwing excrement into their cells , hosing them down etc in return for priveleges. Shortly after he left Long Kesh immediately following the hungerstrikes an IRA unit tracked McCarthy down and shot him in the legs quite severely , so severely he still walks with a pronounced limp to this day ( in later years this led to him being introduced to country volunteers simply as Jim whod been in jail and was shot - the country volunteers left to assume the Brits had shot him). A few years after his deserved comeuppance this individual was at the heart of the IRAs secrets as part of Scaps team . A man who could be turned by the British for a mars bar . A man who remained there until a serious corruption scandal among the Belfast provisionals ended up splashed over the front page of the Sunday World in the late 90s and he was demoted after uproar from the grass roots in Belfast - demoted sideways.

And heading up this crew was the late John Joe Magee . As we now know the FRU had a fetish for recruiting former and even serving British soldiers as its prime agents . Brian Nelson George Poyntz , Kevin Fulton ,Willie Carlin... John Joe was no ordinary soldier but was a member of the British special forces , the highly secretive SBS . In the context of the calibre and activities of the utter scumbags he was working alongside for years in the ISU this also raises a serious question mark .

When McGuinness now raises the spectre of his dead comrades in his defence we should remember one of them , Paddy Flood , a dedicated volunteer from Derry who was kidnapped by the British agents McGuinness placed in charge of the IRA , held and tortured by British agents for nearly 2 months until they extracted a "confession" from him before being shot by them as an informer . But thats one dead comrade Martin wont want spoken of or remembered .

In the light of these disgraceful events that basically sealed the fate of the republican struggle and which McGuinness is one of those chiefly responsible for , as he was for Donaldson too ( a securocrat who strangely didnt work to undermine the leadership in either the US or South Down , quite the opposite) both he and Adams have serious questions to answer to the republican base after a quarter century of utter treachery and deception . Ingrams tittle tattle is but a pin prick compared to what has already been established . The FRU , thanks to McGuinness was able to lead the republican debate on informers for 20 years of struggle . They should not be allowed to lead this key debate at present or ever again for that matter .

If the past form of his mates Collins , Scap and Donaldson is anything to go by McGuinness will simply brazen this out no matter what proof may emerge or not . But these questions wont go away . Will they ever get answered ?

author by pat cpublication date Tue May 30, 2006 18:34Report this post to the editors

You raise some serious issues in your piece above which should be addressed by Sinn Fein. As I said, I don't believe that Martin McGuinness is or was a British agent but there is an awful lot of incompetence to answer for. As you pointed out good Republican Volunteers were murdered by the nutting squad. Another name which should be remembered is Volunteer John Corcoran who was murdered in Cork by the British agent Sean O'Callaghan. John Corcoran is still labelled as an informer when he was likely killed to cover up Sean O'Callaghans own betrayals. Another IRA Volunteer who was active from the 1940s is adamant that John Corcoran was totally innocent of the charges.

author by Barrypublication date Tue May 30, 2006 19:09Report this post to the editors

Its got to the point were the entire history of this struggle may have to be turned on his head in my opinion . Now the question is who put OCallaghan in such a high position ? And who protected him in it ? Ive been aware for a number of years that OCallaghan at one stage was actually seem meeting his handlers in a wooded area in Kerry and that those who reported what theyd seen found themselves accused of telling lies and threatened with death by a senior figure close to McGuinness. They werent lying .

The death of Sean Corcoran , Paddy Flood and a host of others need answering yet there are no answers . Just as in the Donaldson and Scapittici scandals . And this arrogance will be these peoples downfall I predict .

As regards charges of incompetence fair enough , but the level of incompetence would be fairly staggering . But in order to deceive an entire movement into accepting British rule and surrendering its weapons while clinically and strategically removing all internal opposition it strikes me you either need to be pretty clever or have some pretty clever people guiding you along the way.

Either way this leadership has major questions to answer . And whether utter incompetents or British agents they arent fit to be leading republicans and any strategy they are promoting is at BEST desperately and fatally flawed .

author by tom eilepublication date Tue May 30, 2006 19:19Report this post to the editors

There needs to be a republican truth commission set up to establish the full extent of British infiltration of the IRA's security department and to restore the reputation of republicans branded as touts by touts . Will Sinn Fein members support such a commission ?
Another thing : if the IRA's security department was controlled by the British throughout the eighties and ninetees , that makes the British primarily responsible for events such as the Shankill and Eniskillen bombings - not the IRA . Seeing as they have abandoned the armed struggle why won't Sinn Fein point this out to unionists?

author by Fear Morpublication date Tue May 30, 2006 19:25Report this post to the editors

I've just seen Martin on the news and I must say that his backing group didn't look very confident. I also noticed that Adams wasn't amongst them surely he should of all Sinn Fein members have been there to lend his support for his comrade.

author by Barrypublication date Tue May 30, 2006 19:28Report this post to the editors

At least we came away from that with honour and integrity . This whole business is just dirty , sickening and shameful .

author by oh ohpublication date Tue May 30, 2006 19:35Report this post to the editors

Sinn Fein chief negotiator Martin McGuinness has also spoken out in support of Mr Scappaticci.

The Mid Ulster MP yesterday told the Irish Republic`s national broadcaster, RTE: ``I can`t disbelieve his denial.

``Mr Scappaticci is the only person with the courage to go before the cameras and put himself before the media and to issue a statement in his own name.

``All of these other stories are coming from nameless and faceless securocrats in British intelligence.

``People have to judge who has the most credibility on all of this.``


Mr Scappaticci is no longer the only person with the courage to go before the cameras and put himself before the media and to issue a statement in his own name.

People will have to judge who has the most credibility on all of this. Sadly it is the type of response above that completely undermines Martin McGuinness's credibility.

Adams was noticeably absent (he always seems to be away on holiday when the proverbial hits the fan, doesn't he?), as was Gerry Kelly. A number of B and C list Shinners were flanking McGuinness, none of the A list were anywhere near him. Not good.

author by Barrypublication date Tue May 30, 2006 19:40Report this post to the editors

He looked and sounded very watery right enough . Did anyone see a copy of the Daily Ireland yesterday ? My local shop told me it was navailable due to a problem at the printers ?

author by Fear Morpublication date Tue May 30, 2006 19:54Report this post to the editors

In one sentence Oh Oh accuses me of undermining Martin's credibility and then he/she does the same by referring to the absence of Adams, Kelly and others. What's your point?

author by Barrypublication date Tue May 30, 2006 20:04Report this post to the editors

It looks to me like he was referring to Martins defence of scap and not your comment

author by Philpublication date Tue May 30, 2006 20:55Report this post to the editors

Micheal Collins was left to take the blame for the Partition of Ireland by De Valera and it now seems that Martin McGuinness has been abandoned by Adams.

author by Biciriupublication date Tue May 30, 2006 21:56Report this post to the editors

"But the question as to how the republican movement came to adopt British intelligences counter insurgency strategy as their own has not been answered by McGuiness or anyone else in Sinn Fein . And adopt British strategy they have .

Still unanswered is the question as to how McGuiness and Adams against strong internal opposition in the IRA forced upon it a single internal security unit comprised entirely of British agents and informers ( this internal opposition culminated in a coup attempt against Adams by Ivor Bell and Dan McCann which was thwarted thanks to Scap and the ISU). "

Harry,
what is your answer to this?

author by tom eilepublication date Tue May 30, 2006 21:58Report this post to the editors

It looks to me like McGuiness has being abandoned by the Brits and Adams is trying to keep out of the way in case they start coming after him. I'm sure they will get around to him eventually though. He was given a foretaste when he went to America for the Paddy's Day bash this year . Remember they gave him what was termed at the time " a very thorough secondary screening procedure" at the airport ?
That's how Britain's ally in the war on terror treated the honourable member for West Belfast . Martin will be back working in a butcher's shop after all this is over -if he's lucky ;-Gerry behind a bar. Good enough for them both.

author by Philpublication date Tue May 30, 2006 22:05Report this post to the editors

Ah, but who owns the bar who owns the butcher shop?

author by Harrypublication date Tue May 30, 2006 22:50Report this post to the editors

At least you lads are keeping out of harms way, spending your time engaging in all this waffle. I notice Ian Paisley Jnr, the Harryville "observer", was on the TV news backing you all up with your demands for an "inquiry". I bet that is a real boost to your campaign in the Bogside and West Belfast. Truth Commission my arse. 'Martin Ingram' was on sounding like a weedy self-important English prat. Paisly, Ingram and a republican ‘lost tribe’ searching for answers in the deserts of their own imaginations. You are welcome to each other.

author by Barrypublication date Tue May 30, 2006 23:01Report this post to the editors

How British strategy became Sinn Fein strategy . How the deal McGuinness negotiated delivered British objectives . And the other one he was caught out negotiating on OTRs was to let FRU killers off scot free . But he vehemently demnied that as well . But sure as shit he was lying through his teeth .

author by Philpublication date Tue May 30, 2006 23:18Report this post to the editors

And you Harry can stick your head in the sand, but you can't bury the truth there. Typical Sinn Fein response calling everyone who disagrees with you Brit apologists, touts, pro Unionists etc. Your Party should know better.

author by okpublication date Wed May 31, 2006 00:25Report this post to the editors

" I notice Ian Paisley Jnr, the Harryville "observer", was on the TV news backing you all up with your demands for an "inquiry". I bet that is a real boost to your campaign in the Bogside and West Belfast."

gerry adams is after nominating paisley sr. to be number one in the new stormont! how did that go in the bogside and west belfast?

author by No way!publication date Wed May 31, 2006 09:53Report this post to the editors

Martin wouldn't stand in the steps of Stormont and lie to us, now would he?

Edwin Glasgow QC, counsel for many of the soldiers, asked Mr McGuinness: "When did you leave the IRA, if you did?"

"I left the IRA in the early 1970s," he replied.


I believe him, and Gerry Adams was never in the IRA.

``People have to judge who has the most credibility on all of this.`` Martin McGuinness, May 15 2003

Related Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/bloodysunday/article/0,,10788....html
author by Harrypublication date Wed May 31, 2006 11:31Report this post to the editors

Phil:
It may not have occurred to you but this entire thread is devoted to accusing Martin McGuinness of being a British agent. In comparison to others I have not engaged in felon setting based on ‘evidence’ from the same source that produced the “Zinoviev letter”. Politically, on this thread, for as long as you give this charade credence, you are dancing to a British and unionist tune.

No Way:
I think you will find that most members of the IRA tend to deny their membership. McGuinness was interviewed in the early 1970s as an IRA member in Derry, during the ‘no go’ period when the IRA operated openly, and he later served a sentence in the south for membership.

Ok
Gerry Adams nominated Paisley to a post the unionists refuse to fill because of their sectarian ideology and apartheid policy. As I said earlier, Adams should have called Paisey an insufferable bigot as he did so.

author by Harrypublication date Thu Jun 01, 2006 01:37Report this post to the editors

No lies Barry - perfidious Albion did the deed all by itself. Try and see the good side of people Barry. It will help you calm down.

author by Harrypublication date Fri Jun 02, 2006 00:31Report this post to the editors

The fools, the fools, they like to be MI5 lead

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/76397

Related Link: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/76397
author by Barrypublication date Fri Jun 02, 2006 00:51Report this post to the editors

Hes about as serious a journalist as the eejits his rubbishing in the Sunday World for gawds sake

Some of Judes cutting edge journalistic exploits reviewed here

http://www.phoblacht.net/am2904058g.html

author by today's newspublication date Sun Jun 04, 2006 15:16Report this post to the editors

FISHERMAN

Codename that MI5 tagged McGuinness with on secret dossiers.

Martin McGuinness's codename as a British spy was 'The Fisherman' -- that's the sensational new claim by a NEW security source.

It follows last week's revelation when former spook Martin Ingram first named the self-confessed IRA boss as an undercover agent. But now a new senior security force source has surfaced. And he claims that:

McGuinness's codename was 'The fisherman' because of his passion for angling.
For the first time, he reveals Sinn Fein supertout Denis Donalsson's codename was 'Mr O'Neill' - a play on the 'P O'Neill' name carried at the end of IRA statements.

He says there were two Provo OCs in Belfast who were also informers, and tells of their codenames.

CLAIMED

And last night Martin Ingram denied Gerry Adams's claim that Ingram really wanted Martin McGuinness murdered, he said, "His remarks are aimed at me and anybody who knows me knows that what he is saying is not true.''

''What I want to see happen to Martin McGuinness is what I have wanted to see happen to Freddie Scappaticci. I want to see a criminal brought to justice. I don't see why a criminal like Martin McGuinness should be protected by the system.''

SECURITY EVIDENCE EXPOSES NEW SPY RING IN SINN FEIN AND IRA

The Martin McGuinness 'spy' saga took a dramatic new twist last night - when a senior security source claimed his code name was "The Fisherman.''

He said the self confessed former second OC of the Derry Brigade of the IRA worked to an intelligence unit known as "Box 500".

That covered MI5, MI6 and the British rmy's undercover Force Research Unit. "Box 500" was also the post box code for MI5 in London.

For the first time, the source also revealed the code name used by Sinn Fein ''supertout" Denis Donalsdson.

He said that was "Mr O'Neill" -- after the "P. O'Neill" whose name appears at the end of statements issued by the IRA.

The Sunday World has checked out both with other senior security sources.

ELEMENTS

They say that both "stand up".

And saying it is "time the lid was lifted" on the whole spying story running between British intelligence agencies -- including the police Special Branch here -- and republican and loyalist paramilitaries, the senior source claimed:

Martin McGuinness was codenamed "The Fisherman" because of his passion for angling.

Coincidentally, the motto of the Force Research Unit (FRU) is "Fishers of Men".

The south Derry MP has strenuously denied a claim by a former spook Martin Ingram that he was, or is, a spy.

He said it was "total and absolute rubbish".

Mr McGuinness said that "elements of the DUP were behind this story".

Both Martin Ingram and the Sunday World have denied that.

Denis Donaldson was dubbed "Mr O'Neill" by his MI5 and Special Branch handlers.

The former Sinn Fein "Mr Fixit" at Stormont was shot dead outside a remote cottage near Glenties in County Donegal in early April.

The new source says the codename "Mr. O'Neil" was a "word play" on the "P. O'Neill" who signs statements issued in the name of the IRA.

The source said: "Those in the IRA who debriefed Donaldson after he admitted he was an informer will know that that is his codename.''

DROPPED

Someone very close to Brian Keenan, the Provos' deputy chief of staff, also known as the IRA Adjutant General, was a tout.

Someone equally close to Martin Meehan was also an informer.

Said the new source: "The IRA's north Belfast brigade met regularly in a flat in the Cliftonville Road area".

"Someone very close to Martin Meehan was 'on the books' ". The flat was wired from ceiling to floor.

"That stopped parts of Belfast being flattened by Provo bombs. The boy who was involved there was paid half-decent money. We called what he was doing 'preventive medicine' ".

The IRA OC in Andersonstown at one time was also an informer.

His codenamd was "Chiefy", according to the source.

The IRA OC in the New Lodge was also a tout.

Said the source "He liked a drink. He was codenamed 'AA' - after Alcoholics Anonymous' ".

And then the senior source dropped a real bombshell on the loyalist side of the fence.

Asked if there were any "big names" there that haven't already come out, he said he would only mention two.

The first is a shocker: John McMichael, one of the first UDA brigadiers who has become almost an icon in Protestant paramilitary ranks.

He was murdered by the Provos just before Christmas 1987 after being set up by UDA gangster Jimmy Craig, later shot dead in the Bunch Of Grapes bar in East Belfast in revenge.

SECRET

Last night, when that was put to a very prominent loyalist paramilitary figure once sentenced to life for murder, tellingly, he greeted it with a silence.

The second loyalist claimed by the security source to be working for British intelligence cannot be named for legal reasons.

But when that eventually comes out, it will send more shock waves through loyalist paramilitary ranks.

Explaining his motives for talking to the Sunday world in the wake of our revelations concerning Martin McGuinness last week, the new source, who we met at a secret location in Belfast, said: "I am not tryig to set anyone up for targeting or death, as some people have suggested this week. But this really was a dirty little war. And if we're talking about the war really being over, it's better that everything should come out in the wash now, rather than later if there really is going to be a peace process involving truth and reconcilliation''.

author by d.leetpublication date Sun Jun 04, 2006 15:19Report this post to the editors

are we to assume that the above is original writing?

or just another cut and paste?

author by tale of two martinspublication date Sun Jun 04, 2006 17:41Report this post to the editors

TO SAY it's the tale of two Martins is an understatement. It's a full-blown war. Hated by many outside his own community, adored by IRA grassroots, Martin McGuinness has been causing controversy for decades.

But never before have his republican credentials been questioned. Now, former British intelligence officer, Martin Ingram, is claiming that the man once dubbed 'Britain's number one terrorist' was working for the other side all along.

He has produced a transcript of a conversation between agent 'J118', allegedly McGuinness, and his handler.

McGuinness dismisses it as "a load of hooey" and is "a million per cent confident" no evidence will emerge to support the claim. However, Ingram isn't backing down: "I'm telling the truth and Martin McGuinness knows it. I'm confident the full story will come out, however long it takes."

More at Tribune website
http://www.tribune.ie/article.tvt?_scope=Tribune/Tribun...eview

author by underpantspublication date Sun Jun 04, 2006 17:50Report this post to the editors

But before I see the movie version, it would be nice to read the Tribune addition to this -
& they're a registered user site. I don't know who they are. Can I trust them with mi cookies?
A C&P please!

author by freederrypublication date Sun Jun 04, 2006 19:29Report this post to the editors

go to www.bugmenot.com and you can log onto the tribune and many other sites..it can also be added as a firefox extension

Related Link: http://www.bugmenot.com
author by Harrypublication date Sun Jun 04, 2006 20:57Report this post to the editors

In Suzanne Breen's article today it is claimed by Martin Ingram that the reason he wants to get back at Martin McGuinness is that he, McGuiness, was responsible for encouraging an informer, Frank Hegarty, to come back to Derry. The Informer was captured and shot by the IRA. Ingram claimed to have liked the informer and "its personal for him", in that that supposedly McGuinness was responsible for having the informer killed.

The reason for this action on McGuinness’s part: the informer was someone he promoted in the organisation, because he himself was an agent. McGuinness had to have him return in order to enhance his own credibility – or so this reasoning goes.

That is so far fetched as to be thoroughly nonsensical. First of all if it ware true, the informer in England is the last person the informer still in place in Derry would want to see in the hands of an investigating unit from the IRA. It would be tantamount to suicide.

It really is "hooey".

At another point in Breen’s piece, mention is made of Central Television’s infamous ‘Cook Report’ TV hatchet job on Martin McGuinness, after which an RUC with-hunt squad aimed at McGuinness was set up. What, allegedly, was the major piece of evidence against McGuinness: it was tape, allegedly of Freddie Scapatticci denouncing Martin McGuinness to his handlers. So here we have a fantastic scenario in which one alleged agent is setting up another alleged agent who had a third (but this time confirmed) agent killed.

This pathetic concoction is not even worthy of John Le Carre

Here is another piece of ‘evidence’ in the Breen piece: “the supergrass, Raymond Gilmour, offered to testify against [McGuinness] in 1982 but was refused.”

The ‘supergrass’ British paid perjury system, whose task it was to create internment by remand, followed by long prison sentences based on invented allegations collapsed under the weight of the stinking corruption and perversions of the course of justice it brought in its wake. The evidence was still subject to some test and it was a question of how much even a Diplock judge could be made to swallow. This is a meaningless item of information and depends for its impact on its audience having no knowledge of what was happening in the North of Ireland in the 1980s. It turns politics into a spy story and is for the gullible and foolish. It is also for the purpose of undermining Sinn Fein, a project of the British and Irish establishment, who want to maintain unionist hegemony but to break up republican unity. They hope nonsense like this will help to do the job. It is the dirty war by another name, dirty politics.

Martin Ingram is the spy in the cold - sent out by his masters to create 'noise', that takes public attention away from such matters as the release of a real British Agent, Ken Barrett last week and his relocation to England (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,,130....html. Barrett, the killer of Pat Finnucane, was run by the RUC special Branch and the Force Research Unit (FRU), a military Intelligence squad. Ingram, a self confessed FRU agent chooses to make his allegations just before and just after Barrett is released.

Who chooses to be fooled by this garbage?

author by GPJpublication date Sun Jun 04, 2006 21:30Report this post to the editors

These alegations on the MP for Mid-Ulster are insults to the intelligence of those of us who voted for him.

Dirty tricks and a smoke screen to hide the growing evidence of collusion between the British government and unionist murder gangs.

Having brought down one six county parliament through one of its agents, does the security / intelligence forces now need to again flex their muscles.

Having read these allegations, I cannot find any substance or depth of content, the arguements are weak and the reasoning flimsy. Before those fingers start typing I am skeptical of the current process which Sinn Fein has endorsed and have made my thoughts known to the party.

Martin McGuiness is my elected representative. He has more credability in my eyes, than than the British government and its military intelligence, the so called free press on this island, mercenaries to capital, who have lost any ethos of impartial journalism ( Susan Breen, who pays your mortgage MI5 ).

Ironic that when the IRA was waging the war for national liberation, these allegations did not come out?

author by Barrypublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 01:27Report this post to the editors

""That is so far fetched as to be thoroughly nonsensical. First of all if it ware true, the informer in England is the last person the informer still in place in Derry would want to see in the hands of an investigating unit from the IRA. It would be tantamount to suicide""

Harry neglects to mention the little matter that IRA internal security were British agents themselves , thanks to Martin McGuinness . Hardly suicidal for McGuinness , in fact not at all .They silenced Hegarty quite effectively while allowing McGuiness to claim he'd dealt with the problem personally . A problem that he was the author of having promoted this British agent despite the grave reservations of many republicans whose opinions on Hegarty McGuinness apparently ignored .

The supergrass system was still being used in 1986 years after Gimour and the others. Another member of the internal security unit , Eammon Collins went grass on about a dozen republicans . He didnt go grass on the Internal Security Unit to which he belonged , unsurprisingly given that they were British agents . Nor did he go grass on Adams and McGuinness despite having had dealings with both men . Adams and McGuinness advised the men Collins was to testify against to take deals for lesser sentences . No sooner had they took this advice when Collins withdrew his evidence and walked straight to his home as an untouchable under their protection . The tout Frank Hegarty was given assurances yet was killed nontheless, as were others given the same assurances by this unit . Collins was keenly aware that such assurances were worthless having himself been part of that team and participated in the torture and killing of a number of people whod been assured of their safety . Despite this knowlege he was confident enough to trust them enough to live openly in a republican estate after committing dreadful treachery . One wonders why collins trusted their word and how he walked away unscathed and unmolested ?

The supergrass system was never used against McGuinness despite being used on others . Nor was internment despite him living and travelling openly in the Bogside and giving media interviews on the IRAs behalf .Why would Britain protect these handful of people for decades and only seek to undermine them now after they delivered victory on a plate to the British ?

There are serious questions which McGuinness and the rest of them arent answering to the republican base and in all likelihood wont ever . No amount of Sinn Fein spin about securocrats undermining the peace process (which Britian and America are holding up as an example to the world) can obscure the fact that a hands off policy existed towards McGuinness from the British throughout the entire struggle . It cannot obscure how he was instrumental in placing the British in charge of IRA internal security for decades . Nor can the spin obscure the fact that McGuinness negotiated a deal which delivered British counter insurgency strategy in its entirety while surrendering weapons and seperatist ideology for an acceptance of British rule and the unionist veto . It cant even obscure McGuinness sly attempt to secure amnesty for the mass murderers of the FRU in a side deal which would have ensured therell never be a proper investigation into their activities .
Republicans have heard enough of the spin , enough of the smarmy evasions and hysteria about securocrat agendas and are demanding truthful answers to ital questions . And these questions wil not go away .

author by Beckerpublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:35Report this post to the editors

Remember the four Cambridge Spies? Kim Philby, Anthony Blunt, Guy Burgess and McClean. Four english aristocrates that worked for the KGB and Infiltrated MI6/I5 to the very top. Anthony Blunt was even related to the queen and her personal adviser on art issues and the most commited communist of the four. No one ever believed that spies could come from the top. What about the Sinn Fein leadership? I believe everything is possible.

author by Barrypublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:40Report this post to the editors

Frank Hegarty was renowned in Derry since the early 70s not only for his total lack of basic commonsense but for his indiscrete nature about his republican activities , and worse . He talked openly to people in bars , basically anyone whod listen about his activities During the 70s he was caught red handed by the sticks of which he was a member passing information to the British . He was quite simply known within Derry as not just a dumbass who was incapable of keeping a secret but a tout as well . Yet in the mid 80s not only did Martin McGuinness admit this man into his personal company and inner circle he was quickly promoted to a very senior position . This met with uproar from many republicans who are on record in outright opposition to permitting the man into the movement at all never mind his promotion to a key position by McGuinness .
Nobody in Derry was the remotest bit surprised when the biggest arms dump ever uncovered in Ireland was found in Donegal and Frank Hegarty found to be the tout responsible . The only surprise was the fact anyone had trusted Hegarty with so much as a tin of beans .

How this man became a senior IRA figure in the mid 80s under McGuinness patronage and protction , how his promotion to senior rank was accelerated and why the numerous warnings against his unsuitability ( the fact hed been exposed as a tout in the early 70s) were ignored by McGuinness are fairly serious questions that the provisionals have never answered and that no-one has carried the can for .

The former British minister McGuinness has questions to answer here . No doubt about that .

author by Unperurbedpublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:56Report this post to the editors

If McGuiness was a tout, I am delighted. It would have helped stop nutcases like Barry running around inflicting more Omaghs and Enniskillens on their fellow citizens. As to the arms dump in Donegal: how many lives were saved by its discovery? The IRA campaign never had a hope, and anything that brought to an end sooner rather than later has my vote any day.

author by Beckerpublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 13:48Report this post to the editors

Would someone like Martin McGuinness spy for money or out of conviction?

author by mr. blunt - spooks international inc.publication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 15:31Report this post to the editors

MI5 doesn't seem to have done too good a job in preventing the Omagh bomb, despite their skilful infiltration of fringe republican groups ...
http://www.phoblacht.net/JH0503063g.html

Or as another source puts it most eloquently:
Again we see the Hegelian dialectic at work. Create the problem (allow the bombing to take place), apportion blame (the Real IRA), get the desired reaction (shock, revulsion and a desire for vengeance) and then hurriedly offer the solution (draconian police state laws) that do nothing to stop real terrorists and only strip innocent people of fundamental human rights.
The final word on Omagh will be left to Lawrence Rush, the husband of one of the victims, "Tell me, are you a completely incompetent force, that in Great Britain they can pick up lone murderers out of a population of 59m? Do you recognise that we have a population of 4m and you cannot pick up over 100-odd people? My dear sir, this is a conspiracy. This will come out like the Derry Thirteen (a reference to the Bloody Sunday massacre by the British army in 1972). Why did Sinn Fein close their office the day before the bomb? Why was the army confined to barracks? Why sir, did the RUC have only three men on the streets of Omagh and 24 men in surrounding areas? Tell me that. This is a conspiracy by the British government and by everyone involved in the administration. This is an example of administrative terrorism.”
Mr. Rush’s wife died in the blast. Victims of both the bombing and the suffocating legislation introduced shortly afterwards were the only victims of Omagh. The perpetrators in both cases were the British government, MI5 and MI6, Her Majesty’s terrorist network.
http://www.infowars.com/pdfs/order_ch.PDF

author by Unperturbedpublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 16:14Report this post to the editors

I tend to think that the people responsible for the deaths in Omagh were those who planted the bomb, rather than those who failed to prevent it getting through. It is a bit rich to run around denouncing British Imperialism and arguing that it can be defeated by bombs, only to complain when one of your bombs kills civilians that Imperialism was not more effective at disrupting your campaign. There is a wee contradiction here.

On the wider issue of informers: this surely shows that conspiratorial groups will always be infiltrated by the state. If, for example, I was a member of the 32CSM and in a meeting at the moment with a couple of other members, the main question on my mind would be: which one of us is the informer? Given this, it is difficult to see how Republican Sinn Fein and the 32CSM can ever hope to resurrect a military campaign that will do anything more than create annoyance for Imperialism rather than smash it. Maintaining a struggle for a few years, if that is what in prospect, is not called victory: it is called stalemate. I don't the sense of pursuing tactics that cannot win. Time to learn from experience and move on.

author by mr. blunt - spooks international inc.publication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 16:28Report this post to the editors

I would like to point out that the Omagh bomb wasn't MY bomb - I really didn't have anything to do with it - honestly. And I certainly never accused the British intelligence/security apparatus of "failing to prevent" the bomb going off. That would be letting them off a little too lightly.

I think that if you study the matter more carefully you will see that there is a significant body of circumstantial evidence to suggest that BEING FULLY INFORMED ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON, THEY STOOD IDLY BY. In my book this constitutes A GRAVE DERILICTION OF DUTY TO THE CIVILIAN POPULATION WHOM THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO PROTECT.

Of course I agree that in the context of their own rather murky covert agenda these actions may well have made some kind of warped sense. But all that this proves - if anything - is that the civilian population are just expendable cattle not only to the so-called "terrorists" whom you in your self-righteous huff condemn but also to the military-political establishment whom you so valiantly defend.

Graze on you peaceful sheep and cattle ...

author by Unperturbedpublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 16:38Report this post to the editors

I'm not sure what the point is that I am supposed to be missing. A bunch of murdering yahoos without the brains they were born with plant a bomb in a built up civilian area, and then complain when civilians are killed that the state should have intervened to stop it going off. Of course, had they done so, this would have been further evidence of British oppression. But it since they didn't this shows that they are callous murderers. Where is the sense in this?

I have no idea whether British intelligence could have prevented Omagh, but let us concede for the sake of argument that this is the case. It does not absolve those cretins who think that planting large bombs in built up areas is a good idea. If, as you are suggesting, British Intelligence is so callous as to allow them to succeed, only with civilian casualties thrown in, then it is absolutely inevitable that they would do so, and those who planted the bombs should have reckoned on something like that happening. If they didn't consider such a possibility it suggests that they are either idiots, incapable of joined up thinking, or callous bastards themselves, for deciding that it was worth the risk - or, of course, both.

As to its being 'your' bomb or not - those who are attorneys for terrorism cannot escape their share of the moral blame for its consequences. By declining to repudiate it (perhaps even justifying it) you are in the same zone of culpabability as those who perpetrate it. Unless you now wish to dissociate yourself from this madness, in which case welcome to the human race, and my apoloigies for misjudging you.

author by Golgomititschpublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 16:47Report this post to the editors

Was just reading that the IRA started its own investigation into the existens of agent J118 (doing what.....nut cracking McGuinness???). Its probably more like an internal MI5/6 investigation, since the IRA is so heavy infiltrated. Who knows maybe the IRA is just a political tool at this stage and the spooks in london having a great time pulling the strings. I wonder what Bin Laden would make of all this? But he is working for the CIA anyway, giving them a pretext for invading other countries and eroding civil liberties.

author by mr. blunt - sppoks international inc.publication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 17:01Report this post to the editors

The point you may be missing old chap is that among the ranks of those complaining about the "failure" of Brit-Mil to prevent the bombing are not merely the "brainless yahoos" who planted the bomb. Perhaps you might care to read my posting again in more detail, in particular the following bit:

The final word on Omagh will be left to Lawrence Rush, the husband of one of the victims, "Tell me, are you a completely incompetent force, that in Great Britain they can pick up lone murderers out of a population of 59m? Do you recognise that we have a population of 4m and you cannot pick up over 100-odd people? My dear sir, this is a conspiracy. This will come out like the Derry Thirteen (a reference to the Bloody Sunday massacre by the British army in 1972). Why did Sinn Fein close their office the day before the bomb? Why was the army confined to barracks? Why sir, did the RUC have only three men on the streets of Omagh and 24 men in surrounding areas? Tell me that. This is a conspiracy by the British government and by everyone involved in the administration. This is an example of administrative terrorism.”

Ah yes I see, just another silly bleating civilian idiot whose mind has become unhinged due to private tragedy .... yes, indeed that would explain it all. Those beastly terrorist cads ......

And before we loose the run of ourselves entirely, I am certainly very far from condoning the actions of those who planted the Omagh bomb. However, what irritates me more than I can bear is wee self-righteous prigs like yourself who ceaselessly chant the mantras of "Omagh" and "Enniskillen" but never seem to have as much as a single word to say about "Dublin-Monaghan", the relatives of whose victims are still waiting for justice - OVER THIRTY YEARS AFTER THE EVENT - in relation to that particular act of state-sponsored terrorism which was one of the worst single incidents of the "thirty years (low-intensity) war" in terms of the number of civilian casualties ......

author by Beckerpublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 17:01Report this post to the editors

How did the three republicans that where caught in colombia training the FARC guerillas, manage to escape from a colombian jail and pop up in Ireland again. Mmmm.....???

author by mr. blunt - spooks international inc.publication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 17:08Report this post to the editors

Let#s refresh mr. unperturbed's memory about "Dublin Monaghan":
http://www.serve.com/pfc/dubmon/mullan.html

author by Golgomititschpublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 17:15Report this post to the editors

Divide and conquer is an old british strategy. Maybe they back to it.

author by unperturbedpublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 17:45Report this post to the editors

whataboutery - it did not take long for it to happen.....

author by Jingtaopublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 18:14Report this post to the editors

Conclusions

The EcoClear and EcoBac Programs at Redwood Falls WWTP have been in effect for three seasons, and the comparison of data and observations with previous years suggests that the programs have been effective in meeting the desired results.
With the EcoClear Program the addition of vast numbers of nitrifying bacteria into aerated treatment ponds improves the nitrification process, and in doing so reduces ammonia and other nutrients that provide the food source for a variety of filamentous and planktonic algae species. The result is a higher quality effluent for TSS, BOD, ammonia, and phosphorus.
With the EcoBac Program the addition of a continuous supply of active enzymes and facultative bacteria into aerated treatment ponds increases the bioactivity in the sludge layer. The result is a reduction in sludge accumulation, and a reduction in the depth of the sludge layer.

author by Barrypublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 18:22Report this post to the editors

As regards the limits of what the British security services will allow to protect an agent its worth pointing out the events which led to the arrest of Marion and Dolours Price and others in London . 3 massive car bombs were allowed to travel from Belfast to central London were they detonated causing widespread damage and many injuries due to the failure to act on bomb warnings . The bombers were intercepted as they travelled home yet the authorities were aware of the plan , their identities and even the cars before they left Belfast and let them proceed fully despite the targetting of key sites such as the Old Bailey and Scotland Yard

""An article in the Sunday Tribune, January 8, makes clear how far up the republican hierarchy suspicions are reaching.

Marian and Dolours Price were jailed as young women for their part in the 1973 car bombings of the Old Bailey and Scotland Yard in London. Marian Price, currently a supporter of the hardline republican 32-County Sovereignty Committee, told the Tribune of her suspicions that in 1973 the British police knew information that only herself, her sister, and three other people could know.

“We were able to rule out one person immediately. The second was Gerry Adams, and we refused to believe he was an informer. The third person was Dickie Glenholmes,” said Price—referring to one of those visited by the police over Christmas that Sinn Fein has given a clean bill of health.

“Through an intermediary, we sent word of our suspicions to Adams,” she continued, emphasising that she was not accusing Glenholmes of being an informer, but wanted to know why her concerns were fobbed off by Adams. ""

http://www.spinwatch.org/modules.php?name=News&file=art...=2211

http://irelandsown.net/price5.html

author by Harrypublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 22:31Report this post to the editors

Barry, you manage to cite a coherent commentary on the spying allegations, one that is still full of holes. It is a commentary based on media information. Information mixed up with misinformation, viewed from afar. Some good parts, some bad.

Then you go and spoil it by referring to the craziest part of the story: "the 1973 car bombings of the Old Bailey and Scotland Yard in London" over 33 years ago, which you then attempt to link to your spying delusions about Sinn Fein and the IRA.

It is almost at the stage Barry, where if Adolf Hitler were to appear on the scene and deliver to you his theory that the Jews were responsible for Germany’s defeat in World War One, you would consider it seriously.

Here is another one for you Barry. The Officials put it about that Fianna Fail founded the provos in 1969-70. They found the theory plausible. It seemed to fit their worldview that the political representatives of the business elite in the South sabotaged their socialist master plan for the North by funding the provos. Only conspiracy theorists outside their own ranks believed them, like you Barry. Everyone with sense thought it was bonkers.

Go and read and objective history of the period.

author by Barrypublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 22:44Report this post to the editors

Nice to see your blaming God these days instead of the securocrats though.

author by Barrypublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 23:10Report this post to the editors

Martin McGuinness and Denis Donaldson did exactly the same as the sticks when put it about that MI5 founded 32csm and we are all basically securocrats in one form or another . Nice attempt to divert the the thread and avoid the questions . Saying the questions Ive put are full of holes isnt really a satisfactory explanation as to why Martin was protected by the British from arrest and assasination for decades , why he promoted a number of British agents , one an already known tout to extremely sensitive and crucial positions within the IRA despite vociferous internal opposition , and why as cheif negotiator he implemented British counter insurgency strategy in its entirety while simultaneously surrendering the insurgents entire arsenal . And was caught out afterwards having negotiated another deal that gave FRU killers total amnesty and would have ensured no enquiry into their activities . And lied about that too .

author by Harrypublication date Mon Jun 05, 2006 23:24Report this post to the editors

Barry, they were hanging around in Heathrow airport waiting for a flight between two bombs. That is why the IRA did not do 'in and out' operations to Britain again. They sent 'sleepers’, who evaded capture for longer periods. How come Barry?

Please go and read up.

On the one hand you accuse the Brits of running the show, but they could not stop the bombs going off, did not know the identity of the bombers, and easily captured the Price sisters, Hugh Feeney and Gerry Kelly in Heathrow because of an ‘operational’ mistake. Gerry Kelly, unlike your hero who was released by 'royal' prerogative in 1980, continued on in the IRA after leading the mass breakout from the H-Blocks in 1983, before being finally re-captured in 1986. He supports the peace process strategy - maybe you blame him. I wouldn’t put it past you.

Show me an aspect of the conflict between Ireland and Britain (or any conflict) in which there has not been success and failure on both sides of the intelligence war. You are so childish (thick in fact) on the issue that it is probably a waste of time debating this with you.

author by de boyhopublication date Tue Jun 06, 2006 17:34Report this post to the editors

Gerry Kelly is a bit of a lad ... and he wouldn't mind going on the piss with him ...

http://cryptome.sabotage.org/fuckcraft.htm

Now mind you he never claims that he did go on the piss with him .... so let's not jump to any hasty conclusions .....

author by 4Provinces1Countrypublication date Tue Jun 06, 2006 20:57Report this post to the editors

GERRY ADAMS

1. CAMPAIGNED FOR THE RESTAURATION OF STORMONT
2. ENCOURAGED THE DISARMING OF NORTHERN NATIONALISTS
3. NOMINATED IAN PAISLEY AS FIRST MINISTER
4. CONDEMNED THOSE WHO DEFENDED DUBLIN AGAINST LOYALIST MARCHERS

WHY IS HE STILL CONSIDERED A REPUBLICAN ?

author by Golgomititschpublication date Tue Jun 06, 2006 21:12Report this post to the editors

Its simple, the IRA leadership is controlled and run by the british. Its only those stupid food soldiers at the grassroot level who think they are fighting for a cause.

author by Joepublication date Tue Jun 06, 2006 22:19Report this post to the editors

It is absolutely asburd for anyone to pay stories like this any mind what-so-ever. You feed the intelligence community when you listen to unsubstantiated crap like rumors of who is or isn't a tout circulated by anonymous "ex" spies.

No credible evidence = no story.

author by nandro - nonepublication date Tue Jun 06, 2006 22:25Report this post to the editors

In1986 a heated debate took place within the provisionals. The issue abstentionism from Leinster House. At stake was an issue of fundamental principal within Irish Republicanism. the abandonment of abstention can be seen as the first of the "strategic shifts" to move the "strategy" forward.

The individual who worked in a frenzy behind the scences to ensure the recognition of LH was M. Mc Guinness. Others within the movement stayed on the basis of assurances from Mc Guinness that the Libayan arms would be used to bring the war to a level not seen before. See Barrys piece on Frank Hegarty to see how a significant element of these were taken out of circulation.

In the couple of years prior to this decision M. Mc Guinness appointed Willie Carlin as his press officer and Treasurer of Derry Sinn Fein, two key positions, rarely held by the same person. Willie Carlin was exposed as a British agent. The major significance was he was flown out of Ireland by a British government jet so sensitive an agent was he given the involvement of Mc Guinness in his positioning.

Mitchel mc Loughlin can be seen as the Yin to Mcguinness' Yang within the Derry provos. In a publication written by Republican prisoners in Portlaoise (2006) it is stated thst Mc Loughlin was investigated by the provos on suspecion of being an agent- he was not cleared but cleared on the grounds of insufficent evidence- yet this man played a central role beside the "Chief Negotiator" in delivering the disaster that was the GFA. I waited for SF to deny this claim, they never did.

The military campaign in Derry was run into the ground- look at attacks for 9192 93 94.

I would refer you to the entry of "Bupivacaine" titled " Beheading of IRA Executive Mc Guinness' master stroke"- the key role Mc Guinness played in spliting the IRA in 1997.

Take a long hard look at 86 and 97.

author by Jack Grantham - Jack Granthampublication date Thu Sep 21, 2006 00:42Report this post to the editors

Martin Ingram a British Spy in Ireland at http://www.jackgrantham.blogspot.com/

Related Link: http://www.jackgrantham.blogspot.com/
author by Sydney Reillypublication date Thu Sep 21, 2006 17:30Report this post to the editors

Martin Ingram could very well still be a British agent. Once a tout...After all the time, energy and money invested in him, would the British just let him go like that. Why should we believe a word he says?

author by BSpublication date Thu Sep 21, 2006 19:16Report this post to the editors

From what I've read Perhaps it's time for the Republican Movement to have a public inquiry. If only to clear the air especially for the Families of those Volunteers and others who have died in suspicious circumstances. It could also clear anyone unfairly branded as informers.
If we can demand inquiries of the Brits then why not?

author by Jack Granthampublication date Wed Oct 18, 2006 03:33Report this post to the editors

Martin Ingram Aka Ian Hurst is a liar.[Soldier of Fortune.Mercenary.Only interested in making money.He is a con-man who will sell his lies to anyone who will pay for them.He is a clown and court jester ]
The person who calls himself Martin ingram but is in fact ex Int Corps SSgt Ian Hurst (known as rocky) is a liar of the highest order. His book STEAKNIFE is almost complete fiction, as are his assertions that Martin McGUINNESS was an agent of the state. He is dementedly lying completely about his past service in FRU. He only ever served in sleepy backwaters of the Province and never came face to face with anyone except low level eyes and ears agents. He never ran STEAKNIFE or even met him. In short, his book is a complete fabrication based on god knows what. He endangers the lives of serving and former soldiers as well as civilians with his ridiculous fairy tales. Hopefully he will appear in court at some of the current inquiries and investigations so he can be shown to be the liar he really is.

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Related Link: http://jackgrantham.blogspot.com/
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