The Sunday Papers "Judas" Edition

by Goddlediddles Sun Apr 09, 2006 18:49

For God's sake Iosaf, would you read the Wikipedia article properly, and then have the decency to correct the impression that you have given concerning who said what during the Donegan/O'Dalaig debacle. You can't rewrite history.

by snigger Sun Apr 09, 2006 19:37

Oh well, if i had gone on about Childer's heart attack or posted another Haughey image I'd be even "wronger".....

Initial impressions from Barcelona are of a huge and that means "h-u-g-e" turnout at both Peruvian and Italian consulates by people to vote. Irish people can't vote if they're not resident in the state, they are the only citizens in Europe who can't. People often say this has something to do with "no taxation no representation" or "we don't want to be told what to do by Yankee / Brits". Which is all very well and a thundering bollocks and fucking disgrace (I'm not being rude, I'm quoting a former President to my mature recollection)
I believe Irish people being disenfranchised the moment they leave the state has more to do with perpetuating the complacent corrupt elite which emerged under De Valera, and reached its heyday under Haughey. But no-one pays attention to me.

Oh yep, vox pox - "straw polls" of those in the queue at the consulates of Peru & Italy indicate migrant votes against mr B. and for the "third way" candidate in Peru. But that says as much about the sort of Italian and Peruvian people who live in Barcelona than anything else.

by bong + boing + bong + boing Sun Apr 09, 2006 20:51

Oh well, here we are "no news from the hive" Sunday, waiting on the opinion polls / days out / citizenry participation thing - which pass for democracy. Ahern is on place one this "Judas Sunday" opening his exhibition on 1916. Oh yes, he stayed up all night polishing the glass cabinets.

So I thought to leave you images to make postcards from in the meantime as we the local, national, transnational, global types wait to see who gets to sign things on behalf of Italy and Peru.

Thats of course because we're anarchists and retrobates, lefties and irrelevents and it is against our communality of social political beliefs and shared analysis of the injustice between the ruling class and majority of humanity : that participation in liberal democractic elections constitutes an act of colaboration with the aforementioned ruling class : a common and core belief of the local, , transnational, and global confederations, federations, syndicalist, collectives & others of the workers' solidarity, organisational and representational entities , such core and common uniting dogmas as uniquely and firstly expressed, motioned, voted, passed, approved & championed [ at/in/by ] the 1st international of workers, intellectuals, hippies, smelly types and so and such not forgetting the literate very normal and well adjusted people back when dark skinned people were slaves and women had 22cm waists in 1866.
try reading that at an ard fheis

Great fun nonetheless no?

:-) don't stop

Albert & Bertie - Mary was President

Everyone & Sean - Mary was President

Eamon & Eamon - we didn't want or need or express interest in - a President

Martin & Gerry - Elizabeth was Queen.

Francis Sheehy Skeffington - one of the many countless precious little birds killed.

by C M Guerin Sun Apr 09, 2006 21:06

- Cearbhall Ó Dálaigh, 5th president of Ireland who said "thundering bollocks and fucking disgrace'

Interesting who you're targeting here. The person who, as supreme justice of the Supreme Court, ruled that "the Hill of Tara is properly to be regarded as a single unified site and not a series of separate archaeological monuments."

Who, as President, became an enemy of Liam Cosgrave when he referred Emergency Powers Bill to the Supreme Court to test its constitutionality in 1976. Cosgrave refused to reprimand his Minister for Justice, the self-declared fascist Paddy Donegan, when he insulted Ó Dálaigh, allegedly using the term "thundering disgrace". The phrase you so cavalierly cite, Iosaf, is a guess at what Donegan might actually have said.

Or is it that those who defend the Constitution are part of the "establishment" and deserve anything they get?

by redjade - Indy .ie correspondent on the Eastern EUroPale Sun Apr 09, 2006 21:39

7 parties.

List system and its complicated.

about 60% turn out
one man died while waiting in line

54% of the vote is counted as of time of this posting

Fidesz (centre-right but really to the left of the MSZP Socialists on some things) is leading at 44% and the Socialists (formerly the old commie SWP) is at 43%

Run off election is expected.

MSZP Socialists are Pro-Bush/Pro-Iraq War/Pro-EU/Pro-NATO/Pro-Privatisation of pretty much everything and anything. The current Socialist PM is Gyurcsány Ferenc (or as Wikipedia calls him, Ferenc Gyurcsány - Hungarian names are actually backwards http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferenc_Gyurcsány ) and he's a multi-millionare.

At the time of this writing, Fidesz Party is winning string in the country side while the Socialists are doing well in the urban areas. Urban/rural split, as almost anywhere - maybe not peru?

—————————

This just in to the indymedia newsdesk.....
MSZP Socialists: 43.24%
Fidesz Party: 43.10%

oooooo! its gonna be close! (small parties may make the difference)

More info:

Official Hungarian Voting site (much in english, too)
http://www.valasztas.hu/main_en.html

Ex-Pioneer
http://indymedia.ie/openwire?search_text=ex-pioneer

Ex-Pioneer votes - but votes 'invalid' - turns in ballot, voted for none - nincs!

'Socialist' Agitprop everywhere in Budapest

by longinthetooth Mon Apr 10, 2006 01:15

If iosaf's version of the 1976 events are to be taken as an indication of his research capabilities then we can not be expected to put much confidence in the accuracy of anything else he has published on indymedia.
The fact is that Paddy Donegan, the then "minister for defence" of the 26-county state, made the "Thundering Disgrace" remarks during a speech he made while visiting a military barracks. The excuse that is generally trotted out is that he was drunk while making the speech, as if that made it ok or somehow mittigated it. By defending constitutional rights Childers was the first person within the "establishment" to call the bluff of the semi-fascist coalition government that thought they were above the law. That is why Donegan verbally attacked him, and by doing so attacked the office of the presidency.

It is worth bearing in mind that it was following this that sections of the media began to find their courage and began to expose the activities of the Garda "Heavy Gang" who had been given carte blanche to do what they wanted by the coalition government.
And let us not forget the make-up of that particular government, Fine Gael and their sidekicks in the Labour Party, lest we make the same mistake again.

by The Skeptical Inquirer Mon Apr 10, 2006 14:56

longinthetooth rightly accuses iosaf of sloppy research by claiming that O'Dalaigh was the source rather than the target of the 'thundering disgrace' remarks.

Unfortunately, he then scores an own goal by saying 'Childers was the first person within the "establishment" to call the bluff of the semi-fascist coalition government '.

The plain fact is that Erskine Childers had been dead for two years by the time incident occurred.

So, dear readers, if this is the quality of fact-checking we're being treated to on Windymedia.ie, what other information should we be taking with a pinch of salt?

by iosaf Mon Apr 10, 2006 14:59

the hated CPE law has been withdrawn by Chirac President of France.

victory. calloo callay. we got that jabberwocky you know, it will be twice shy.

http://marseille.indymedia.org/news/2006/04/5382.php

by Goddlediddles Mon Apr 10, 2006 15:11

This is the relevant quote from Wikipedia:

Paddy Donegan, a controversial and outspoken Minister for Defence (who was subsequently revealed to be an alcoholic, his drink problem fueling his outbursts), told an army function that the President, their Commander-in-Chief, was a "thundering disgrace" who, he implied, didn't stand behind the State in its fight with terrorism. (Perhaps inevitably, it is widely believed that the actual language used was stronger. Ó Dálaigh believed it was 'thundering bollocks and fucking disgrace', as he told guests at a dinner party subsequently. His own anger was partly due to the nature of what he believed the comments really were. However, the only journalist present on the occasion - a correspondent with the local Westmeath Examiner newspaper - insists that the words used were "thundering disgrace" and nothing else). The apologetic Donegan immediately offered his resignation, an offer he repeated subsequently. But Taoiseach Liam Cosgrave refused the offers. Cosgrave's failure to meet the President to personally apologise, following on two years in which he had failed to meet his constitutional obligation to regularly brief the President, and the manner in which his government treated the President, proved the last straw for President Ó Dálaigh. He became the first Irish president to resign.

by phm Mon Apr 10, 2006 15:15

Now young French pepole - particularly those from an immigrant background, can continue to proudly enjoy 25% unemployment.

Hooray for the workers!

by mmmm Mon Apr 10, 2006 15:39

the only time anyone bothers to comment on iosafs "tundering nonsense and bollocks" is when he gets it massively wrong.......

by iosaf Mon Apr 10, 2006 16:51

Cearbhall Ó Dálaigh, 5th president of Ireland did not say "thundering bollocks and fucking disgrace'.

I wonder how many regular readers of indymedia in general and indymedia ireland in particular could list the presidents of Ireland, explain what they did, who they were, what they wanted to say, why they were elected or not elected, and why only one resigned. It would really improve the historical accuracy of this weeks "Judas edition" if someone did so.

& the Judas Edition competition :-
Which Irish presidential candidate said on a live broadcast of the "bong+ boing+ bong+ boing+ 6.01 news" something inaccurate which led to the immortal phrase on mature recollection .

I suppose an editor could go add "did not" into this week's illustration.

by pat c Mon Apr 10, 2006 17:15

who was the 1st president? i dont mean of the free state but who was the 1st person declared president of ireland? (apart from self declared presidents [eccentrics, organists & other dingbats]). General Humbert declared a Republic of Connacht in 1798, I wonder if that counts. wasnt Matthew Teeling its President?

by dingbat Mon Apr 10, 2006 17:30

Samuel Neilson; Michael Dwyer; John Sheares; William Corbet; Arthur O'Connor; Archibald Hamilton Rowan; William Jackson; William James Macneven (Macnevin); Matthew Teeling; Robert Emmet; Henry Sheares; Theobald Wolf Tone.

which one of them was president eh????
jayzhus you can't have a republic without a president can you????
And tellingly the only portrait of the suspects hangs not in Ireland but in London's "national portrait gallery" along with Terry Wogan and Bob Geldof...

Sorry to correct you Pat. C., but it was John Moore

(wiki)
"John Moore (1767-1799), the son of prosperous merchant George Moore was educated at the catholic school of Douai and the University of Paris under the assumed name of Bellew. On his return to Ireland he studied for the bar but seemed uninterested. In 1798 a force of about 1000 French under General Humbert landed at Killala. Moore joined the French as did a considerable number of his tenants. John Moore was proclaimed " President of the Republic of Connaught" after the "Races of Castlebar". The Republic was lost at the defeat of Ballinamuck and John Moore was captured and held prisoner under very bad conditions. Moore died in Waterford during captivity. The whereabouts of his grave were unknown until it was discovered by chance in Ballygunner Cemetery, Waterford in 1960. On 12th August 1961 the remains were exhumed and conveyed under Army Guard to Castlebar. John Moore was reentered at the Mall Castlebar with full military honours on 13th August 1961.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Moore_%28Connaught_Pr...nt%29""

which one of them was our first president?

by an craoibhin aoibhinn Mon Apr 10, 2006 21:43

Austin Clarke wrote a nice poem about the "Burial of an Irish President", (namely Douglas Hyde, the first President under de Valeras Constitution). The Free State Government of the day didn't enter St. Patrick's Cathedral (Hyde was C.of I.) for the funeral service out of fear of offending their Popish overlords.

At the last bench
Two Catholics, the French
Ambassador and I, knelt down.
The vergers waited. Outside.
The hush of Dublin town,
Professors of cap and gown,
Costello, his Cabinet,
In Government cars, hiding
Around the corner, ready
Tall hat in hand, dreading
Our Father in English. Better
Not hear that ‘which’ for ‘who’
And risk eternal doom.

by hist 2 Tue Apr 11, 2006 14:53

- I have chosen as illustration this week a photo of Cearbhall Ó Dálaigh (12 February 1911 – 21 March 1978) who served as 5th president of Ireland (19 December 1974 - 22 October 1976) and alledgedly said 'thundering bollocks and fucking disgrace' which was considered very strong language in those days. Oh yes, for indeed we have had great presidents of Ireland, have we not?

So our presidents were a foul-mouthed bunch? And given the acknowledgement that Ó Dálaigh didn't say it, what exactly is the point about the presidents?

- I wonder how many regular readers of indymedia in general and indymedia ireland in particular could list the presidents of Ireland, explain what they did, who they were, what they wanted to say, why they were elected or not elected, and why only one resigned.

I'm sure many could. Douglas Hyde (1938-45), scholar and former president of the Gaelic League. Capacity to function as president questioned and lies about him circulated by FG and brave people like 'Flann O'Brien'. Seán T. O'Kelly (1945-59), solicitor, FF govt minister and participant in the 1916 Rising. Éamon de Valera (1959-73), former Taoiseach and President of the First Dáil, stayed too long in the presidency. Erskine Childers (1973-4), died in office. It's been suggested lately that his mother was a British spy, but there's no actual evidence for that, and some of the circumstantial evidence would tend to clear her. Cearbhall Ó Dálaigh (1974-6). Patrick Hillery (1976-90), helped Jack Lynch to defeat Haughey and Boland, reputation attacked by an unknown source during Papal Visit, some say by Haughey, some say by British Intelligence. I presume everyone remembers the 'mature recollection' incident which scuppered Brian Lenihan. Mary Robinson (1990-97), barrister and professer, was instead elected. Mary McAleese (1997-), barrister and professor. "Mary McAleese was re-elected on Friday 1st October 2004 being the only validly-nominated candidate", according to the official website of the President. Of course.

by oh look Wed Apr 12, 2006 15:59

"Cearbhall Ó Dálaigh, 5th president of Ireland did not say "thundering bollocks and fucking disgrace'.

I wonder how many regular readers of indymedia in general and indymedia ireland in particular could list the presidents of Ireland, explain what they did, who they were, what they wanted to say, why they were elected or not elected, and why only one resigned. It would really improve the historical accuracy of this weeks "Judas edition" if someone did so."

Oh look, an retraction, followed by a sneer at the other Indymedia readers.

Never mind Iosaf your tedious pretentious meandering are getting some attention, for a change.

by iosaf mac d. Sun Apr 16, 2006 15:14

took a week but it seems the Judas thing is hitting home :-
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/75486

Also the costume fun thing is hitting home too. Wonderful protest here :-
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/75488

I spent the week exploring another country, its called Spain. Of course most people in Ireland think Catalonia where I live is Spain, despite being told very often it isn't :-
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/75197
Spain speaks spanish, is a desert, has very little water, is very catholic, & most people look at you strangely, and africans do the hard work on the farms after crossing the sea on rafts. (if they're lucky). Spain has a different climate, vegetation, economy, look and feel about it, and culture to Catalonia. But for horrible historical reasons they are still very much linked-
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/75454
Of course on the 7th anniversary of RTS! london j18 they're going to hold a referendum on their "estatut" http://www.indymedia.ie/article/72240 and this might interest people in low institutionalised democracy Ireland. There will be 5 options on the referendum each one counted -
Yes :: No :: Blank :: Spoilt :: Abstention.
THe party of Spanish government one of the coalition are calling for a "Yes", the Opposition (PP) for a "No", the anarchists for "Abstention", the outright independence for "Spoilt" and as of yesterday the ERC (principle authors of the original estatut before it went before Madrid for a "Blank") Should be interesting.

Of course down the south of Spain they don't like Catalans or Basques. Which is why they still have plaques up to Franco and all the public schools have the fascist eagle at the door, and the public houses have the falange arrows above the portal.
I entered the constume buzz by borrowing Sephardic (the jews of the western mediterranean from the Tisha Bev onwards. C/F http://www.indymedia.ie/article/71523 & as every few hours the streets were taken by hundreds of "guild" members of "penitents" in hoods, carrying displays of the crucifixtion and mary, followed by groups of women in veils ( who I learnt pay upwards of 300€ for the privelage!? ) and then the police in army gear playing the anthem.... (!?) I wore my forelocks down in the orthodox manner hanging either side in lovely little curls and a tsitsit (twisted ribbons from a prayer apron) under my waistcoat. Of course it was silly costume and a hotchpotch of what only "appeared jewish". But walking along as the last person in the processions (of which there were more than 14!) asking "who killed Jesus? was it the mafia? would you do it again? certainly got a response.
Interestingly, I wasn't the only freak show touring the deep south of KKK.catholicism this last week. I met a duo from Salt Lake City, Utah, Aron and Josh, 2 young Mormons, who were doing their best to convert people to yankee jayzhus. Alas, they didn't take kindly to my pointing out to them, that Jesus wasn't american, and in the Jesus related scriptures (including the gnostic texts) there are no more than 5 references to hygiene. (they're very squeeky clean the mormons).

At end the local police took me aside and explained to me that no-one was interested in "who killed jesus, the mafia, or the question would they do it again".
And tried to verify if I was or not "really j-e-w-i-s-h". It went a little bit like this :-
-"you're Irish, the Irish are catholics, there are no jews in Ireland".
:"ah yes but look at my name, have you ever seen a name like that, very jewish no?"
-"do you have synagogues in Ireland?"
:"no De Valera expelled our community which is why we have lived in Catalonia since the transition, but we do have Africans just like you, and our minister for Justice does his best to expel their kids".
-"there's a train at 06h15 why don't you get on it?".

__________________________________________________________________

I'd like to remind everyone that as the FF/PD regime go through the 1916 motions, 4 years ago they promised in their "proclamation of the republic" Fianna Fail promised to make Health their number one priority, to end waiting lists – permanently, and an extra 200,000 medical cards.
Irish kids alone in the European Union don't get school dinners and don't get school books.

__________________________________________________________________

I'd like to finish this week's Sunday Papers "easter eggie friendly letter" with a selection of qoutes from people who were in their own way crucified though not one of them got brought back to life.

"You can’t drive a knife into a man’s back nine inches, pull it out six inches, and call it progress."
"You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it."

Malcolm Little, also known as Detroit Red, El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz, and Omowale,
or "Malcolm X". killed by the Mafia.

________________________
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate. So it goes. Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction.... The chain reaction of evil — hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars — must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation."

Martin Luther King junior.
killed by the Mafia.
_________________________

they didn't bother to record quotes for these 3 rebellions by slaves in ancient Rome:-

First Servile War: 135 BC-132 BC on Sicily, led by Eunus, a former slave claiming be a prophet, and Cleon (Cilician).
Second Servile War: 104 BC-103 BC on Sicily, led by Athenion and Tryphon
Third Servile War: 73 BC-71 BC in Italy, led by Spartacus
Of course Spartacus though not brought back to life, acheived fame and recognition thanks to Kirk Douglas who with a grant from the Hollywood actors guild for universal Peace & Justice, made a documentary of the same name in 1960.

all those wars ended in crucifixtion.
not one Resurrection.
__________________________

"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them."

"Mathematics is the language in which God wrote the universe."

"You cannot teach a man anything, you can only help him to find it for himself."

"Surely, God could have caused birds to fly with their bones made of solid gold, with their veins full of quicksilver, with their flesh heavier than lead, and with their wings exceedingly small. He did not, and that ought to show something. It is only in order to shield your ignorance that you put the Lord at every turn to the refuge of a miracle."

Galileo Galilei (February 15, 1564 – January 8, 1642)
he spent the last years of his life under house arrest and went blind.
___________________________

we all know how to say Basta & Fuck Off! we just need to figure out what clothes to wear when we say it, so they remember it.

there's one for everyone in the audience.