Tara case fails.

by Miriam Cotton Thu Mar 02, 2006 09:15

Are you able to discuss the reasons given for why there is to be no discussion in the press? This is an absolute outrage, on the face of it. Every other environmental campaign should protest this gag on legitimate public protest.

by Seán Ryan Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:14

It's justice that's meant to be blind. Not the Public.

by Terence Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:31

When you win once using the legal route, the government always always changes the law so that it wins the next time. This happened in the Bin Tax at least twice. It's happened in numerous other campaigns and is repeated all around the world in every other country with similiar struggles and issues.

This is the problem with going down the legal route. It puts everything on hold, takes energy and enthusiasm out of the campaigns, disempowers people, plays the game according to the rules of the capitalists, is very costly and then allows everything to hinge on just one person -the judge -who is in most cases not on your side and even if he/she is sympathetic, can feel the weight and pressure of the establishment that expects the 'right' decision.

Oh, yeah and it also continues the notion that it's been handed to the 'experts' and 'professionals'. This is half the problem, the notion that politics should be dealth with by professionals. It shouldn't. It should be handled and controlled by the people.

It's regrettable, but that's how it is.

by . Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:46

from Salafia's counsel pending the Supreme Court decision next week and the decision on appealing this High Court decision.

All the papers are reporting it (see link), so no ban

by Seán Ryan Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:47

:-(

by c murray - Tarawatch Thu Mar 02, 2006 13:12 dotliath at gmail dot com n/a 0877765289

The previous postings dealing with this case and to a newer extent strategic infrastructure legislation has necessitated this reaction. The judgement was emphatic
and we must be careful about reaction. The crucial thing in the case i.e the lack of vision with regard to the complex as a whole is to be studied. The issue of costings will be decided on 14/03/06 and if there is to be an appeal , we must decide on the basis of judgement not emotion. The gag is chosen not imposed. There has been a lot of support and I have been unable to deal with comments to this point. There will be a gig, meeting and Tara Heritage Preservation Group will host a seminar on ramifications of the Planning and Development bill in march. I will post as soon as I can.I must emphasise that in relation to this case and others opting for judicial review that the issues of cost, personal collateral and prolonged proceedings are off-putting and this area of inequity will be addressed. regards, cmurray.

by prophet of doom - none Thu Mar 02, 2006 13:36

Lets dump the idealogical baggage. For our country to grow
in a sustainable way we need infrastructure of some kind.
This road will address this and allow employment to flourish
in the meath area rather than 10s of thousands of people
travelling up and down to Dublin everyday.

Sometimes compromises have to be found. The amount of
mis-information spread around by anti M3 groups is unbelievable
This motorway will allow commuting parents to spend more time with their kids
in the evening and reduce stress in their lives. In meath there is a health syndrome
whereby people go to the doctor complaining of feeling unwell and its due to
getting up too early to commute and having no life.

by c murray - Tarawatch Thu Mar 02, 2006 14:07 dotliath at gmail dot com n/a 0877765289

No concept of heritage in our legislation, two radical infrastructure bills and an outdated , unsigned code of practice governing sensitive excavations. yes lets party! This is about
allowing these issues to be aired and publicised so that people are aware of how
the edifice of state operates "in the national interest"
its about lobbies, CIF,NRA, IBEC . its about control of policy by non-democratic organisations. Thus it will go on. Quality of life issues are important to people
as are the quality of their elected representatives and issues of democratic freedom.
I was told in court that locals would not take a case because of examination by the courts
of your financial history, the damage the process does to families, media isolation and fear. let us examine why we are afraid to protest and engage in judicial process , then we can have a barbecue also.

by Paddy Thu Mar 02, 2006 16:00

"whereby people go to the doctor complaining of feeling unwell and its due to
getting up too early to commute and having no life."

People who have no life are holding up the M3 with this bullshit about Tara heritage and other tree hugging hippy crap and are forcing the rest of us who work and have jobs to get up earlier to commute.

by Terence Thu Mar 02, 2006 18:03

Paddy, you call yourself an Irishman do you? If you do then your history, language, cultural and heritage is part of that identify.

You are acting like a spokesman for the corrupt in the country that are destroying everything that is great about this country.

The M3 motorway is being pushed through unnecessarily. It's people like you and me who will have to pay for the cost that is likely to run into billions. At least 6 years ago, a bypass was given the goahead for both Dunshauglin and Navan and would have cost a few 10s of millions. They then could have upgraded the existing road. Instead they refused to build these bypasses. Why? So they could build a case for the motorway and get the public behind them due to frustration. Not only that it was discovered that you can't toll an existing right-of-way. That's why it's a new road.

Not only that, all the campaign have asked is that the M3 being re-routed. Instead though you are acting completely against your own interests -i.e. being ripped off on tax, losing your heritage and then being ripped off every day that you will ever travel the new M3.

I suspect you don't normally associate yourself with tree-huggers as you call them or academics and the slander and biased press used by the govt, politicians and the construction industry have repeatedly referred to those stereotypes, knowing that many like you would take the bait. They know that you are so afraid of the label that you too might be some kind of softy, or greeny that you would rather be ripped off every day. It's a mental thing. They know that you will take sides with the corrupt.

I suspect much of this goes back to our schooling system, with it's constant grading and classification that puts the vast majority off anything that has even a whiff of bookishness, academina or greenies. And that's exactly what the system is designed to do, to create a vast swath of the population that refuse to think, judge all their decisions by deep inbuilt biases of which they are hardly aware and the desire to remain ignorant and at all costs refuse to think rationally for themselves and to celebrate their ignorance of things. And in effect making them ripe for the manufactured opinions and other crap suggested via the media by the establishment.

Using your logic, it would seem that you would not mind if every carn, castle, tomb, castle, fort and whatever else was demolished in Ireland. Would seem to think it is only one or the other. Have you actually thought about this other than the garbage planted in your mind by the corporate controlled mass media?

by prophet of doom - none Thu Mar 02, 2006 18:29

Terence may have the wrong end of the stick, taking a single problem and issue and expanding it to a idealogical rant about loss of
people's rights to reject to various pieces of infrastructure. (this post is not meant to single out terence's post)
A government's function more or less should be to serve the majority of people and be democratically accountable. It will fall down sometimes due to human nature and greed but we as people must get involved politically so we feel part of the system and not outside it.

There is no sense in looking to the past about what could have been done.
Ireland as a country has fundementally changed, it is now an economic power house. Thats not going to change in the near future and there is no need being a victim about it. We need to be mature about this, we need 1st world infra-structure to match our 1st world economy.
And thats more or less requires a M3 motorway. We as a country need to be more mature about how our politicians deal with these issues and how our media reports on them.
Many thanks.

by Terence Thu Mar 02, 2006 21:04

Eh, no, I don't have the wrong end of the stick. There are many people in many campaigns have tried to engage with the political process, and they have consistently been led down the garden path and take for a ride, while behind their backs the government has totally ignored them, and forced through their various mad schemes

This has happened in for example the Bin Tax, the incinerators, the Disability Bill, the closure of hospitals, Carrickmines, Tara, Rossport, and the whole issue of Shannon and supporting the corrupt regime in the White House. I'm sure there's more issues. Oh yeah, ask the people up in Ballyogan in South Dublin about the campaigns against the dump there too. Or about the plans for the new prison on the Northside. This list could really grow....

As for Ireland needing 1st class infrastructure, you obviously didn't read what I wrote above that the M3 is not needed, and an upgrade of the existing road would have been enough along with the addition of 2 or 3 bypasses. Obviously you never heard of Peak Oil nor Global Warming. Do you believe this mad infrastructure that requires oil to exist forever can actually continue? And do you think global warming is something on another planet that will never impact here, and we will never have to change the way we organise our infrastructure??

Your last sentence though is laughable:
>We as a country need to be more mature about how our politicians deal with these issues and how our >media reports on them.

Our media is completely self-serving and in the hands of those who have power and the political process is fundamentally corrupt. It is supposed to be representative but is anything but and it is totally unaccountable. And besides the whole idea of having a party whip is yet another completely undemocratic mechanism as well.

by Micheál Mulcreevy Thu Mar 02, 2006 21:38 mici at oceanfree dot net

Hi,
a quick question for the Prophet of Doom, Paddy and other irate commuters from Co. Meath.

Do you not believe that it would represent better value to invest E800 million of taxpayers money into employment creation within Co. Meath. thus removing the need to commute; or are you going to continue insisting that building a toll road, which given the increasing cost of fuel, insecurity of supply, etc. few of us will be able to afford to use upon completion, will better serve the interests of the common good?

May I recommend a quiet night in with Barry Silverthorn's excellent documentary 'End of Suburbia' ( ffi, http://www.endofsuburbia.com/ ) to remove any lingering doubts you may have about what lies ahead for the commuter/consumer lifestyle.

Do the future generations of Ireland a favour, get out of your car and get a life!

Slán,
M

by +- - none Thu Mar 02, 2006 22:32

yes, we need infrastructure.

But any M3 without the rail link is madness. Blanch is already a mess - if the M3 comes on stream without the railway we in Meath are screwed.

by J Fairfax Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:00

An excellent summary of the issues was published in a letter by Andrew McGrath of The Tara Foundation in this week's Southern Star. It's reproduced here in full:

"A Chara
The challenge currently under way in the High Court to the lunatic M3 motorway has brought out an important fact that the corporate media have, as is their wont with important facts, ignored:

that the present administration has done more to undermine heritage protection than any in the Republic's history.

On January 12th, Gerard Hogan S.C., argued that the National Monuments (Amendment) Act 2004 permits the Minister for the Environment to order the sale or destruction of any monument, heritage site or artefact in the country, if said Minister deems this to be "in the national interest", the definition of this term not being provided. This incredible amendment to previous National Monuments law was introduced as emergency legislation by the previous incumbent, Martin Cullen, now Transport Minister, in response to the Supreme Court decision in 2003 that, not only was the National Roads Authority's wish to destroy Carrickmines Castle illegal, but that Government has a Constitutional duty to safeguard heritage.

The contempt of the Minsiter for the highest court in the land, as expressed by his evisceration of the National Monuments legislation, is symptomatic of the PD-led administration's contempt for the constitution, or more precisely, their rage at the existence of a legal document with the temerity to presume that there are such things as basic rights and protections. It is also a sign of their contempt for the country and its history that they should see themselves entitled to act so openly.

The arrogation to the Minister's possession of all national monuments and heritage sites has been done with a distinct aim in mind: by removing all State monitoring of and guidelines for archaeological excavation, the Minister can now permit for-profit archaeological firms to work the necessary destruction, without repsonsibility for this destruction secruing to the State, or to the office and person of the Minister. Once the corporate media and other vocal interest groups have suceeded in normalising the transference from archaeology as research and preservation to archaeology as something old and useless that gets in the way of progress, the projuect canproceed, with expressions of triumphalist scorn from Cullen and Co. for old thinkers who stand in the way of the inevitable future.

The problem is that the M3, and the roads programme as a whole are simply an excuse for spending large amounts of money in a way that does not benefit those who actually have to pay for them. The M3 will enable drivers to reach the glut of traffic on the M50 in less time than before, but that is all. What is to be done about the increasing dependency on private ownership of petroleum-powered GM or Ford products and the non-existence of a public transport network in the country is, simply, not the administration's business. Their business is to create 'investment' opportunities for land speculators in the Boyne Valley and on any re-zoneable land in the 'Greater Dublin Area'. This is a logical step for IBEC's political wing the PDs, a party which no one elected to Government and enjoys 3% support, yet dictates Government policy and controls its major ministries.

But there are bigger games at work. One of the condidates for the M3 contract, Brown and root, formerly Kellogg, Brown and Root, is well known for its greatest cash-cow yet, the Dublin Prot Tunnel, perhaps the most appropriate symbol of expensive futility imaginable. Brown and Root is the construction subsidiary of teh Halliburton, a corporation that is less than popular in America owing to the investigations by the Pentagon and Congress into its practices, including allegations of massive fraud, bribery and insider trading.

But a friend in need is a friend indeed, and what better way to support ailing administrations to give them tax holidays and vastly expensive prestige projects like the Dublin Port Tunnel and the M3? And waht better way to make this possible than to clear waway a few inconvenient legislative obstacles?

Considering Minister McDowell's willingness to trample on the legal rights of Irish citizens and to sign defence 'agreement' with the US without bringing them before the Oireachtas, it seems that the IBEC administration's policy is to ignore the Constitution wherever possible until the great day dawns when it can be cast aside. and 'who will stand upright in the winds that would blow then?'

by c murray - TaraWatch Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:04 dotliath at gmail dot com n/a 0877765289

There have been two Planning and Development acts, dealing specifically
in infrastructure. There has been no separate and equivalent legislation
re the protection of heritage. in fact the legislation has been eroded
through the Roads Act 1993,1998. The abolition of duchas, the amended
National Monuments act 1930-2004. The Tara campaign seeks to highlight these
issues nationall y and internationally. The president of the high court is creating a new
division within the court structure which will facilitate the fast-tracking of the judicial review
process envisaged in the restructuring of an Bord Pleanala.
these are issues of importance to all democrats. Tara may provide a microcosm
for these issues to be aired, but they have to be answered and we will continue to
campaign on them.

by c murray - TaraWatch Fri Mar 03, 2006 22:11 dotliath at gmail dot com n/a 0877765289

the tara Litigation case re the granting of 38 licences of excavation was undertaken by
Vincent salafia, the group fundraising and campaigning on behalf of the litigation
effort is Tarawatch. due to massive legal bills ,in the short term and potential costs of
half a million, I must re-iterate that we are not making statements re the case. That any statements
made by groups in relation to the litigation are not speaking on behalf of TaraWatch.
We are willing to meet with any groups interested in the Hill of Tara issue on Sunday
fifth of march, (cf events calendar) and disclaim any responsibility herein with regard
to comments published on the newswire.

by concerned Fri Mar 03, 2006 22:21

Great letter Andrew. It's great to see letters still in the press.

If the legal case has failed, where will it all go from here? Is construction starting now?

by Andrew McGrath - Tara Foundation Wed Mar 08, 2006 02:26

As to what recourse remains, I can see only one, and that is the Supreme Court. The National Monuments Act 2004, in that it removes all State control over heritage, and leaves it to a Minister to decide what is to be done with it, without guidelines, goes against a 60-year tradition of Irish heritage protection that has been upheld by the Supreme Court on several occasions; i.e., it has been established as being in accordance with the Constitution.

What is needed to put paid to this development splurge is a Constitutional decision, stating that the 2004 Act is illegal and must be repealed. Even though the Act contravenes the EU's Valetta Convention on the protection of heritage, the EU Commission have refused to stand by their own legislation. The only recourse is a reaffirmation of how essential a document the Constitution is, in that it is the only legal document which preserves fundamental rights. It is no accident that there has been a concerted media campaign to undermine it; the media are loyal to the State (as opposed to the nation) and will attempt to destroy anything in aid of that loyalty.

by c murray - Tarawatch Wed Mar 08, 2006 21:53 dotliath at gmail dot com n/a 0877765289

well Andrew,
First we await Judgement on the constitutionality of the destruction of Carrickmines, this judgement in the case of Dominic Dunne has been put back.
The last deferral was on Tuesday of this week , it was put in for mention
on Thursday the ninth of March.The test of the constitutionality of the minister's
order to alter or destroy a National monument has several repercussions for Tara.(please see the newswire dated 6/03/06)
There are a number of cases pending in Europe and in Ireland on the issue,
then we focus on the issue of organising a protest at the Tara site, which will
focus on both the fragility of the archaeological remains and the concept of the
site as an integral and inter-connected set of monuments.
Given that the State contended that there is in all our legislation, including
the Roads Acts (1993/1998), the National Monuments Act 1930-2004, no
definition of a complex or landscape as a national monument, that should be highlighted as imperative to the issue of Tara.We should focus on the NRA
acting without an agred code of practice, the lack of audit of that organisation and the lack of statutory body to implement the NMA.
we should be supporting protest, please see the newswire for tonight, on the cancellation of such a protest and all concerned organisations should be in contact, which has not happened.

by yeah right Wed Mar 08, 2006 22:03

'we should be supporting protest, please see the newswire for tonight, on the cancellation of such a protest and all concerned organisations should be in contact, which has not happened.'

very school teacher-y. that will get you a crowd

by Hmmm Thu Mar 09, 2006 00:04

'TaraWatch and Vincent Salafia are not allowed comment on
or engage in discussion of the outcome of the Judicial review
in the media. There will be no press releases.'

Why can Tarawatch not comment? My understanding is that Tarawatch has nothing to do with the case????? Sounds like a knowlege is power load of bull

by c murray - TaraWatch Thu Mar 09, 2006 06:40 dotliath at gmail dot com n/a 0877765289

Legal says that there is a bill of half a million and not to piss off the judge by commenting on the judgement. but what the hell, it's all over indy. in for a penny in for a pound.This question was answered at the begining of the comments.
Tarawatch is essentially a fund-raising and press release kind of operation.
as to other cases, groups etc. I do wait for them to get to the cross roads and do something.Have been waiting a while.

I may not be able to organise a piss-up in a brewery, but I have not seen anyone go up there with the media and show them what is happening at Barronstown.
There is a considerable group of local opposition , I'd suggest they contact people and show them barronstown and collierstown, right within the core zone, on the route and not protected from demolition. The maps are on the tara blog and in the link.

by Hmmm Thu Mar 09, 2006 08:15

'not to piss off the judge by commenting on the judgement'

So is it screwed?

by W. Finnerty. Thu Mar 09, 2006 20:43

For many people, huge mystery still surrounds the meaning of the very ancient set of hieroglyphics engraved on the stones in "Cairn T", which is located some miles to the north-west of the Hill of Tara (County Meath, Ireland).

One thing seems certain: the Cairn T set of hieroglyphics in all probability predates all of the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics by hundreds, and possibly thousands of years.

It looks as though there might never have been any really serious academic study of the Cairn T set of hieroglyphics to date? - and, as many heritage sites around the Hill of Tara are now under very serious threat from the planned M3 motorway toll road project, and MUCH more so possibly from The National Monuments Act 2004 (please see http://homepage.eircom.net/~guerin/pressrel_1.htm ), perhaps now is the time for some very serious, and some very good quality academic investigation? - before it's all too late.

Several good quality drawings of the Cairn T hieroglyphics can be seen at the following web site, together with some very detailed explanations of their possible meaning, which - correctly or otherwise (?) - some people very vigorously dispute and ridicule: http://jahtruth.net/jere.htm

Some much more cautious speculation on the general purpose and meaning of Cairn T can be found at: http://www.vincentpeters.nl/triskelle/attractions/lough...0.020

The following four quotations have been taken from the page address immediately above:

1) "The construction date (Cairn T) is estimated somewhere between 4000 BCE and 3000 BCE. According to some scholars the passage tombs at Loughcrew were built before Newgrange, which is most likely built around 3200 BCE."

2) "The most farfetched and historically implausible we have stumbled upon claims that the above mentioned Cairn T is the burial site of Ollamh Fodhla. Ollamh Fodhla is known as a historical Tuath, or King, and influential breitheamh, meaning judge or arbitrator. It is commonly accepted that Fodhla introduced the triennial conference at the Hill of Tara, the Feis Teamhrach, or Great Fair, to discuss the loopholes in the Brehon Law. It is unlikely that Ollamh Fodhla, who lived around 1300 BCE, is buried in a tomb which has been built two millennia before."

3) "The last prevailing theory we discuss clench to the calendar idea. The foundations of this theory are simple, yet effective. At dawn of the spring (and autumn) equinox a sunbeam illuminates a symbol, which might represent a flower or sun, in the top-left corner of the end stone in Cairn T. With the rising of the sun the beam of light slides and hits a second sun-like symbol spot on. Martin Brennan(?) and Jack Roberts(?), who discovered this phenomenon in 1980, immediately identified the slab as a calendar. Sounds reasonable, but what about the other sun-like symbols on the slab? Considering their position on the lower part of the slab it seems improbable that the sun is able to illuminate them."

4) "After all these riddles you might want to sit down for a minute. Reflect on everything you have seen and experienced while sitting on a seat-shaped stone on the west side of Cairn T. Perhaps you feel royal if you realise that the stone you are sitting on is known as (King) Ollamh Fodhla's Seat, or perhaps you feel uncomfortable if we tell you that the stone is also known as The Hag's Chair."

A short but impressive video showing how the sun lights up the hieroglyphics on the "end stone" inside Cairn T, on and around the days immediately surrounding March 21st and September 21st (the central equinox days), can be viewed via the following address:
http://www.knowth.com/loughcrew-equinox-video.htm

If you can help resolve any of the present mystery (and controversy) regarding the true meaning of the set of hieroglyphics on the Cairn T stones, please send your information as a "comment" to this page.

by W. Finnerty Sun Mar 26, 2006 19:37

A recently received letter from the Council of Europe dated February 22nd 2006 contains a deadline date for the completion of the application form for European Court of Human Rights Case Number 25077/05.

Among other things, this particular case involves issues relating to the protection of heritage sites - including those in the Hill of Tara area, now under threat from the proposed M3 Motorway, and in the Turoe area of County Galway - where there is a threat from the proposed N6 Upgrade.

A scanned copy of February 22nd 2006 letter from the Council of Europe can be viewed at the following location:
http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.co...r.htm

The completed application form required by the Council of Europe was placed in the post yesterday. Further information can be found at:
http://www.europeancourtofhumanrightswilliamfinnerty.co...t.htm