Loyalists march
national |
miscellaneous |
news report 
Saturday February 25, 2006 14:30
by Mon aboot toon
At Corner of Cathal Brugha Street I heard a man with an English accent saying that allowing them to march was "like letting the KKK march in Alabama".
March blocked at Parnell St. got the impression the Garda riot squad may be trying to force the march through.
If they do that it is certain to lead to very serious destructiion.
Barriers used during roadworks are being commandeered to create road blocks.
Several loud blasts near corner of Parnell Street, possibly fireworks (?).
Saw garda on some raised surface beside Parnell Monument being hit by flying traffic cone. Another garda standing beside him got down off barrier to assist him.
Some people retreat temporarily to Cathal Brugha Street.
Went back down O'Connell St. Overheard garda telling group of gardai to withdraw as the riot squad are handling matters. 12.52
Rudimentary block beside the spire.
Unmarked car and SUV parked on island opposite GPO.
GPO closed at one pm. Heard porter telling people "to get out of town"
I have spent too long typing this up, so the situation is likely to have changed.
Going back now to monitor "progress".
Comments (121 of 121)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121Loads of TV news stations and nothing on.
Where are the RTE or TV3 cameras.
At least newstalk had reporters on the scene.
People should have gone out with banners saying welcome home, thats the best thing we could have done. In a way i feel it is disrespectful to our nation but at the same time i see them as irish people and i believe in freedom of speech so we must allow them have their say. They are fighting a losing battle, there will be a united Ireland and the know it.
The march is not about opposition to a United Ireland, it's demanding an enquiry into the involvement of the Dublin government in arming the IRA in the early years of the troubles, which the organisers claim led directly to the deaths of innocent protestants.
Typing from the scene of the action.
the peelers are now focusing it seems on preventing nearby shops. Yes it was only fireworks; nothing stronger. Hold on what's this back in a sec. . . .
"I heard a man with an English accent"
Surely part of the problem is that so many people invest so much importance in nationalism. A man has an English accent, so what? If he had white/black skin, should that also be given attention? If he had any other accent, how would that change the significance of his statement?
I was just on O'Connell Street. Some individuals were taking barriers and other objects from the construction site at about 2pm. Saw some objects being hurled over the crowd. One uniformed officer was visible on top of the GPO, filming the crowd. Another individual (not in Garda uniform) was visible on the roof two buildings down (towards O'Connell Bridge), and it also looked like he was taking photos/videos.
Some disruption shortly after 2 caused a large section of the crowd to spring down O'Connell Street, but only for about 10-15 seconds. I believe it was caused by a group of three individuals dragging a barrier from the construction site toward the centre of the protest.
These events show that the so-called Republican Movement is basically a fascist movement which tolerates no opposition. So what if loyalists want to march in Dublin? They may be fools, but many protest marches in Dublin are organised by fools (some of them frequent posters on this website). Republicans claim the right to march in London. If Sinn Fein organised a march in London and the British National Party organised a riot in the centre of London to stop it, this would be no different to what the Republicans are doing in Dublin. Of course, the Republicans will claim that the Orange men are nazis and fascists. However, Hitler and Mussolini might have disagreed since, when they looked for allies in these islands, it was the Republicans and not the Orange men who responded.
this Love Ulster (sic) parade gave them rogue-provos something to rally around since it was first proposed. This little incident could see the re-juvenation of RSF/Continuity (of bloodshed) faction/Na Fianna hEireann as a organisation. In typical Fenian fashion they jumped on the bandwagon of concern for the '74 victims for populist reasons. They will interpret the cancellation of the parade as a 'victory' and i would imagine ballads are already being composed.
Dispondancy is running high among Irish-republican circles regarding the news yesterday about MI5's prior knowledge of the Omagh massacre. This today is only adding fuel to the smouldering powder keg. Are the powers-that-be that lacking in cognitive ability not to have forseen that this is how things today would turn out.
Gardaí loyalists and stickys causing trouble again do the free state assembly, combined loyalist military command and the stickys who take seats in the 26 countie councils not know there's a peace process, shame on them. 32 contae republic 4 the Green White and orange F Ur Q
saoirse
Funny, rather than condemn the orangemen who behaved perfectly peacefully you blame them and the police for this?
It was republicans who were throwing petrol bombs and attacking civilians. There is no excuse whatsoever for this sort of behaviour.
Still seems chaotic - there was a baton charge on O'Connell bridge a few minutes ago, after guards were being forced back to the northside across the bridge.
the guards are lining up and blocking the quays and there are protestors around Burgh Quay and also Aston Quay.
There were cars burnt on Nassau street (Newstalk saying 5 or 6, on the phone I heard about 2), large numbers of rcks thrown at guards.
.
Amran Na bFiann
Families Acting for Innocent Relatives have as much a right as anyone to take to the streets and demand the restitution they never got, just as victims of unionist violence have. The issue of the protest had nothing to do with a united ireland, it just wanted answers. The levels of violence that came with it were not the fault of the families or the gardai, but the paramilitary groups who have long since disgarded any thoughts of peaceful resolutions to their problems and as a result, today more innocent bystanders, tourists, students, children and parents, stant the risk of being injured or killed. If the IRA and Sinn Fein think this is the way for a united Ireland, i think we're better off without the 6.
...
There are a number of cars on fire on Nassau, and a couple of buildings had their windows smashed with furniture from the pavemet cafes.
A waitress from one of the cafes tried to put a car fire out with an extinguisher.
Someone told me that the PD's office has had it's windows smashed.
The police charged down from Molesworth Street with batons drawn causing panic, and I saw Republicans trying to calm people down.
I've seen one person arrested.
At the moment the south quays have been cleared, and the Millenium Bridge and the Ha'penny Bridge have been closed.
http://www.ireland.com/weather/cam.htm
well... almost live
why is the webcam displaying a live view of O'Connell St. Bridge on ireland.com/dublin/visitor/live_view/ discontinued ?????
...
"Gardaí are advising people to avoid Dublin city centre due to the violence."..............rte website
RTE seems to be following that advice if their website is anything to go by.................
"There are reports that cars have been attacked ."
"It is understood shops and businesses along O'Connell Street have closed their doors "
It's good that imc is on the spot and thanks for the reports ,but the coverage should have been organized.
Is there any way in the future that indymedia could put a reporting team together to cover this sort of event instead of having to rely on impromptu postings ?
thats fair enough,but surely they realised that coming down as the orange order,wearing sashes etc. would provoke trouble?
not that i condone any of the reactions to it today.
No offence (despite the title) but the people who are blaming mainstream republicans, and the people who are blaming the loyalists are equally wrong.
Sinn Fein cannily approved of the march (personally I think they should have welcomed it with huge banners like the guy above said).
It is a tiny bunch of die-hard dissidents who can't tell when an armed struggle is well and truly lost that are to blame for this. And only them.
Im Glad lelia you reconise the orange order to be a part of the Combined loyalist command, udr uda ruc Terrorists get out of all Ireland
your not welcome in belfast or cork either as i think youve already guessed, give up your foreign guns and we'll think about accepting your foreign traditions.
orange slaves meet green slaves
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmen...79353
http://static.flickr.com/35/104186573_7c5a9a52e7.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/36/104180393_2c97827f02.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/36/104179148_c07ca60e3f.jpg
Gardaí have evacuated Jervis Street Shopping centre in the last 15 minutes, after a crowd of about 100 crossed Capel Street and ran up the escalator there.
Reports that 12 civilians injured, 4 Gardaí injured, 27 arrests.
...
Watching from a distance via the web, one thing that amazes me is how the Grads dealt with this in comparison to May Day 2004.
Did the Gardaí bring the water cannons down from the North this time?
Although I wasn't in town myself, my younger sister was down on Naussa Street, with her camera. The people who were breaking into cars, turning them over etc were nothing more than scumbags. They were out looking for trouble and thats all, and the march was used as an excuse. They were not orange men, they were scum and that was it
The loyalists did this to provoke violence and anger so that they could have a new reason to complain about Ireland and they succeeded. Anyone who believes this march was organised for any reason other than to do so needs their head examined. We're constantly reminded of the victims of nationalist violence but what about the loyalists, both had a hand to play in it. It seems they are always the ones to hold back any progress towards peace and this march has been another example of this.
According to a friend, ( Spanish), who got caught up in the whole thing, there were a lot of very agressive and violent people just mindlessly firing missiles and attacking a Dublin City Tour bus. There were also people, ( from Republican Sinn Fein), who had set up a peaceful blockade across the street, to block the parade coming down the street. She says that lots of people, mostly women, who were passers by were asking what their protest was about. they were being told that some Orange Order marching bands were about to be allowed to march down O Connell Street. Ordinary people were stopping and joining the blockade. Then people who eemed to have nothing to do with this protest started going mad firing stuff around and gnerally losing it. She said there were l,loads of kids just picking stuff up and throwing it.
It strikes me that questions should be asked about who benefited from allowing this "parade" to go ahead in the first place. Ostensibly, it was a parade to do with Loyalist victims of nationalist violence. Firstly, are Loyalist victims more important than non loyalist? Secondly, if their issue was with the alleged assistance given in the early days by politicians in the South to Nationalists, then why bring down a crowd of Orange order marching bands?. if I was upset about the violent deaths of my friends and relatives, I wouldn't bring six marching bands who are regularly used to commemorate, in a grossly triumphalist manner, the beating of one side of the community by another several hundred years ago ina bloody war. Sectarian triumphalism should be given no air to fuel it's flames. Who thought that it was acceptable these people to march down O Connell Street? It's O Connell street for God's sake. Once they were allowed to plan to do this, they should have been ignored. Unfortunately, they weren't ,but then, somebody somewhere knew that would happen. So now we just have to wait and see who benefits from this.... because someone will.... that's why the pwers that be agreed to the parade in the first place. I am guessing that this will be used as some kind of blackening mechanism against Sinn Fein. Although they were advising that the parade should be ignored, watch for the reporting over the next few days, where Republican Sinn Fein and Sinn Fein are mixed up freely in TV reports. Hopefully, the Irish public is not as easily worked as the US public who fell for the Saddam Hussein, 9/11 connection scam. Of course, I could just be dreaming but I smell a rat, when the Orange Order is allowed to march, with bands down O 'Connell Street . Someone had an ulterior motive. Either that or people simply got fed up shopping today on O Connell Street.
O'Connell street is a building site with plenty of side access and McDowell gave the go-ahead for a UVF aligned march to depart from the Garden of Remembrance, past Parnell Street and the GPO: How did this fool expect there to be no reaction? It was a win/win for loyalist propoganda no matter what happened but the blame for this riot lies with McDowell, hope the bill for replacement windows for PD HQ is paid for by him as opposed to the taxpayer.
There were Loyalist plants in the crowed to spark the violence.
Geoff, surely no one is saying that the mindlessly violent antics of some in town today , does any good. It seems it was just that, m indless violence but can't you see past it? Anyone could have told you that something like this would happen, if such a parade was given the go ahead. Allowing it to go ahead was deliberate provocation, some people were thick and didn't see it for what it was. As I say, the Orange men should have been ignored but they weren't. Now, why would Mc Dowell have given the go ahead for a sectarian triumphalist parade to take place on O Connell Street? The thugs involved in the violence acted as they were expected to act, right on cue. We should be asking, whose cue?
this was no bunch of diehard republicans: this was the risen people of dublin determined to keep the loyalists back. republicans, socialists, anarchists, Labour party members all were here today. also a lot of ordinary working class people. it took the garda 2 hrs to drive us down o'connell st.
orange feet will never walk on o'connell street!
beano, leila, john, all other apologists for orange sectarianism/loyalist bigotry, the 'british garrison in ireland':..
i was tempted, only slightly early on, to say, oh let them go ahead and ignore them. but wee willie frazer showed his hand when he said he had no objection to marchers' including pictures of loyalists responsible for the dublin/monaghan bombings, responsible for the single biggest atrocitiy of the troubles, on the march. hardly 'innocent' victims, wouldn't you say?
frazer is a bigot and a sectarian hack, in my opinion, and although there may be a handful of individuals who have thrown in with him out of naivete for this march, most of those on the march are hypocrites and committed loyalists, extremely selective in their condemnations of 'violence.'
the whole premise of the gfa, that there are two equally legitimate 'traditions' on this island that it is the job of constitutional politics to reconcile, is bullshit. would you urge black nationalists in the southern us in 1964 to 'reconcile' themselves to the 'other' tradition, the tradition of white supremacy? of course not. the analogy is not perfect, but its close enough. loyalism needs defeating, not pandering, as the southern stablishment, the british government, and the sf leadership seem to believe.
25 February, 2006
Adams - Rioting in Dublin entirely wrong and reprehensible
"There is no justification for what happened this afternoon in Dublin. Sinn Féin had appealed to people to ignore this loyalist parade and not to be provoked by it. Our view was that it should not be opposed in any way and we made that clear.
"Regrettably a small, unrepresentative group, chose to ignore our appeal. Their actions were entirely wrong and reprehensible."
http://sinnfein.ie/news/detail/13257
No justification for disgraceful scenes in Dublin City Centre
Deputy Sean Crowe said:
"Willie Frazier and the Love Ulster campaign came to Dublin today to be provocative and get a reaction. Sinn Féin urged people not to be provoked and to stay away and the vast majority of Dubliners, including members and supporters of Sinn Féin, did just that.''
http://sinnfein.ie/news/detail/13256
24 February, 2006
Crowe calls on Dubliners to ignore provocative and sectarian march
Sinn Féin TD Seán Crowe has called on Dublin people to ignore what will clearly be a provocative and sectarian march on the streets of our capital City tomorrow. Deputy Crowe was speaking today in relation to the controversial ‘LoveUlster Rally’, which takes place on the streets of Dublin tomorrow afternoon.
He said, “I would urge all Dublin people to ignore what will clearly be a provocative and sectarian march on the streets of our capital tomorrow afternoon. This march has nothing to do with supporting victims of the conflict and everything to do with promoting sectarianism. Willie Frazier is bringing his group here to stir up a negative reaction and I would hope that the people of Dublin will send him home disappointed.''
http://sinnfein.ie/news/detail/13254
I assume Pat C, that you were part of the group who were, peacefully, blocking the road and not part of the group running around the streets firing bottles at passersby and setting light to cars?
i didnt see anyone firing bottles at passers by. i tried where possible to discourage people from doing stupid things like burning motorcycles or attacking a fire engine.
the violence was started by the gardai who attacked the crowd near frazers. this resulted in a crowd spilling onto the road who naturally took advantage of the situation.
No water cannons used.
12 civilians and 4 gardaí hospitalised overall. More minor injuries.
BMW burnt out at Nassau Street. Bonfire lit earlier outside Savoy cinema (O'Connel Street). Someone's bike was locked in the wrong place - dismantled and thrown bit by bit.
Overheard a garda say that the Public Order Unit fucked up.
A friend of mine was on O'Connell street earlier and saw a group of people put a moterbike on its side, open the fuel tank and try to set the petrol on fire.
Allowing the march to go foreward, had it done so peacefully, could have been a major breakthrough. It could have been the beginning of turning over a new page and not letting past quarrles dictate current politics. As it stands, the thugs who instigated this violence could have set back the peace process back too far and given Dr. Paisley something else to give out about.
If this was the intention of those involved in the violence, congratulations, you almost certainly achieved your goal.
As for "the risen people", I am one of those people who will not rise for violence. What is happening today is not, i'm willing to bet, the will of the people of ireland, and is certainly not my will. If Ireland, North and Republic, is to move ahead, we must get past the past, it's history.
"As it stands, the thugs who instigated this violence could have set back the peace process back too far and given Dr. Paisley something else to give out about."
thanks! glad you realise that the garda started it!
Loyalists plants? Prove it. Sounds like your talking out of your ass!
I'm a unionist, originally from the South and now living in Belfast, and I have a number of unionist friends who went down to today's victims parade in Dublin.
My friends went down there to the South in good faith, with peaceful intentions, to try and get across the point of view of unionist victims of IRA violence to the people of the South, and to make their point to the Republic's government, in the Republic's capital city.
They were met with rocks, paving stones, petrol bombs and hours of mindless rioting. So much for republican tolerance of minority traditions in Ireland.
This all feels weird, because it's actually very difficult for me to sympathise with the Gardai - I was on the May 5th Reclaim the Streets march and I still feel anger deep inside me when I remember the brutal, criminal force the Gardaí used to attack a peaceful, creative (albeit disruptive!) form of protest.
But today is different - I've just been talking to a friend of mine in Dublin - he was taking pictures of the riots with a digital camera and was threatened by the rioters. At Reclaim the Streets it was the Gardaí who were threatened by the cameras. It was the Gardaí who tried to shut them down. Cameras were their worst enemy because it was they who were in the wrong.
Today is different. Mindless violence aimed at silencing and intimidating Ireland's minority tradition.
"Get the f*ck back up north. We're for a 'united Ireland' and ye's aren't welcome here"
A thousand ordinary unionist people are on the buses heading back north right now - just passing Dundalk as I type - and their abiding impression of the Irish Republic is going to be one of being penned into Parnell Square by violent republicans with petrol bombs and of having their right to get their point across stifled - (jeeeez, I mean the irony of republicans penning Protestant protestors into Parnell Square, named after perhaps the greatest ever Irish Protestant proponent of tolerant Republicanism...)
- I tell ya, every unionist in Northern Ireland is going to be looking at those TV pictures tonight and of that iconic picture of a riot-strewn O'Connell Street - and they're all going to be thinking well, this is the reception that awaits us in a united Ireland, this is the reality of what happens when victims of IRA violence try to raise their voice in today's Republic.
I know enough republicans to know that genuine republicans and many Sinn Fein members are going to feel appalled by todays violence against Protestant victims - I just wish those genuine republicans who genuinely believe in reconciliation between our traditions raise their voices against these neo-nationalist extremists.
Is Dublin to be a free city for all of us or not?
I'm listening to it on newstalk106, an eyewitness came on air and said he seen Charlie Bird with his head split open. Anyone else hear this?
SF might be interested to know that large sections of the crowd were shouting "Sinn Fein! IRA!" not RSF!, so the SF spindoctors are disowning their own.
I am not sure how, precisely, you think allowing a group of sectarians ( commemorating the violent triumph of one group over another group in 1690), to march down the main street of the capital of this republic, would help anyone at anytime?? This was insanity. If, indded, this had been a group of relatives of victims of violence commemorating the dead or seeking justice for all, who would have minded? Again, I say, who brings a load of marching bands to such an event? there were mindless thugs in town today but they acted as they were expected to act. There were also people legitimately protesting against this deliberate provocation.
I don't believe i mentioned the gardai, and i don't believe they were the instigators. You, like so many extremists, seem to only be hearing what you want to hear (or read in this case).
I'm also interested to know, lola lee loo, how this kind of violence should be expected of anyone with any measure of sanity.
And how that kind of violence could be considered a legitimate protest. When i first heard about the march I did think the Orange Order were being foolish to get involved but didn't expect this measire of violence, but they still have the right to come down here and commemerate their dead. After all, who are you to say that those marching in the band weren't relatives of victims of sectarian violence?
Pat C is typical of the narrow-minded bigots that make up the Republican movement. If this was 1942 instead of 2006, he'd be trying to organise assistance to the Nazi war effort. Enjoy it while it lasts, Pat C, because there's a good chance that by midnight you'll be in jail or in hospital. I agree entirely with David Christopher. The only possible reaction to this display of fascism is to re-organise the march for next Saturday, but on a much larger scale. Bring 600 bands not 6 and 100,000 people not 6. Invite all democrats in Ireland to join in. Have 10,000 troops and police in Dublin to ensure that the Pat C's are crushed and taught a lesson they will never forget.
What I am saying is that the violence today was mindless, innocent passersby did have missiles thrown at them etc. The protest at this parade was legitimate though. The powers that be, expected this kind of melee to ensue. Most people I know were offended at the nature of the parade but most knew that ignoring it was the way to beat those who had allowed it. It doesn't take long to incite certain people to mindless violence and whoever sanctioned the parade, knew this. Mindless violence is just that, mindless. people who act in this way aren't thinking, they aren't insane, they just don't even realise that they are pawns in the game too. I agree with you, that the behaviour today was appalling but please look at who is really to blame here?
I remember you calling for the rossport 5 to be lynched without trial.
You have a way with the hang em flog em lingo. I'll give you that.
amazing that people want to argue that their group is completely justified in committing violent acts, attacking others, and destroying parts of Dublin, because a group is marching in the street to express their intention to remember those killed by the IRA.
Tell us, was it because they had cartoons of any Republican prophets that really started it off?
Those making this argument prove how little thought they have put behind their actions, something the vast majority of observers have already concluded. Kudos on defeating your own argument, others should not have to waste time debating such absurd arguments.
Perhaps they were all Sindo reporters....
but proud to stand with them today.
today: republicans, socialists, anarchists, anti-fascists all stood together and cried "NA PASSERAN!"
and they did not pass, no jaffas marched past the GPO!
You'll pardon my skepticism, but I find it highly unlikely that you managed to type out a nice piece like that and send it from your mobile phone complete with picture as you travelled through dundalk. Let the loyalists speak for themselves.
Al quiet till 12:15 when a beangarda was spotted filiming - shouts of traitor and some "Republican chants" and aA Nation Once Again and Amhrán na bhFiainn sung.
12:35, riot police move in from the south on Parnell Square.
1:15. Sound of drums can be heard briefly from the direction of Parnell Square. Bangeers or fireworks and occasional cheers continue. from same direction.
1:50. Riot police chasing crowd past the Spire. Pitched standoff for next hour as riot police form a static line between Penney's and Cleary's. Rocks, bottles, bricks and sundry items flying over the row of shields.
3pm. Gardaí take O'Connell Bridge.
Apparently, most of the action happened at Nassau Street after this (about 3:20). Cars overturned and set alight, and a report that the windows of the PD offices put in.
3:30. Gardaí pin down rioters in Temple Bar but about 100 escape north over Capel Street Bridge to run through Jervis Shopping Centre at 3:45.
"no jaffas marched past the GPO"? interesting turn of phrase. Tell me, you're not Gerry Adams in disguise, are you?
While i do see what you mean i still dont believe that they were wrong to come down here to march. Furthermore, i disagree with violent protest whatever the motive and refuse to believe those involved in the violence were merely pawns of the minister
john:
you apparently have no idea of what fascism is, as every intervention you've ever made out here suggests you'd look sweet in a brownshirt. cracking heads, off to jail or the concentration camp, all that. pot kettle black, john. have you considered submitting your resume to become minister for justice?
Opposing loyalist Dublin march is anti-republican
(by Suzanne Breen, Sunday Tribune)
Please do not copy and paste articles when there's an accessible online source. Thanks - 1 of IMC Ed
This article appeared in the February 5, 2006 edition of the Sunday Tribune.
It was insane to have let this march happen. What were the authorities thinking? A sectarian organisation opposed to reconcilation in the north marching in Dublin complaining about Loyalist victims. It was bound to ignite passions and cause trouble. There can be no ownership of victimhood. This march was not about victims rights but about blaming the other side. There has been very little blame put on the shoulders of the Orange Order. Their march was designed to provoke and they got what they came for. This will have serious political ramifications. The naiveity of letting this march occur is shocking. It is good to see that O'Braidaigh's Republican Sinn Fein do not appear to have been to blame for the rioting. To say as some commentators do that the riots were caused by anarchists is just barmey. It was motivated by intolerance of the marchers sectarian anti-Republic views and claims to historical legitimacy (or illegitimacy). Marching down the Capital's main street waving and banging such intolerant symbolism could never happen without virulent protest. Unfortunately the Gardai were not prepared for what was obviously a risk of civil disorder. Hopefully it will not undermine the Belfast Agreement and give the DUP a sense of triumphalism.
14 hospitalised, including 8 civilians and 6 gardí. Around 40 arrests.
no i'm not adams. havent u heard? hes condemned the resistance!
jaffa is a term used to describe loyalists. you might be aware that a jaffa is a type of orange. there is a loyalist organisation called the orange order, heard of it?
hence the title jaffa for loyalists. nothing sectarian on it; just a play on words.
Please don't treat me like i'm 5, I'm well aware what a jaffa is, and while the word may not be sectarian the idea your phrase put across was.
suzanne breen has spent the past year trying to tell us what a wonderful man willie frazer is deep down, what an urbane gentleman that peter robinson is (minus the israeli uzi and, oh, let's forget about his depraved rationalization of the short strand siege), what a lovely lady eileen paisley is (presumably after her campaign for a council seat on a 'christians only' platform). last christmas, when paisley ditched the deal for decommissioning because of a photo, she backed his position in tv commentary. whatever else about her work, she has committed an awful lot of energy trying to convince the reading public that orange sectarianism is just another 'tradition' and that only neanderthols, ultra-nationalists, devout catholics and bigots would get in its way. follow her advice if you think it makes sense, but in my book she's made herself an apologist for sectarianism. she's on the road to becoming ruth dudley edwards.
As a Brit, I find it peculiar that the Orangemen saw the need to have one of their military-style marches, with their Lambegs and the like, in order to commemorate victims of republican violence, or was there another win-win strategy here - "If the Irish let us march down O'Connell Street, what right have the taigs got to stop us marching elsewhere." or "We'll cause a riot and that'll prove to Northern unionists that we'll never be welcome down South" - either way, the marchers win!
I am sure that Donaldson and his crew knew exactly what would happen - I did - a great propoganda exercise! The Irish government must be mad to have let this parade go ahead - a meeting - OK, a political loyalist/orange parade - total insanity!
As for all the holier than thou 'lets grow up, we should have let this parade pass peacefully - we're grown up and mature down here in Dublin' rubbish that's being spouted - there's huge pain and sensitivity on both sides and the parade was obviously highly provocative!
because FAIR use fascists to steward their marchs, combat 18 & bnp. willie frazer of FAIR had his personal weapon taken aawy from him by the PSNI because of his links with the uvf & uda. this march was going to commemorate some of those who planned the dublin monaghan bombings including frazers father.
i have no opposition to the orange order itself marching in dublin. might like it, but wont do anything to stop it.
Pat C, using the term Jaffa is just unintelligent. Something serious was allowed to happen in Dublin today. Resistance to a Sectarian march is legitimate. Willy Frazer is not a man out to "commemorate" the dead. if that was the aim today, again, i say, why would you bring Orange marching bands? they have never been used to solemnly commemorate the dead before. In fact, look back to see what some of these marches were like before most of the trouble started. In cases where both Northern communities became involved in the parades, they were celebratory. Indeed, to dthis day, even where marches are disputed, the tone of the music is triumphant. These bands aren't about the Last Post. So, saying that some how, this "parade", ( and they called it that themselves), was a commemoration of the dead is an insult to those dead. Why, on the other hand, use the term "jaffa"? Hardly, bolsters your case does it? If we are using the term, then think of the many "jaffas", ( and the terms is used for protestants not just for Unionists), who fought for you to have right to protest at this protest in the first place.
Your comments earlier would seem to contradict that.
i dont think so, or point exactly to which comments. i dont like the OO but i think they should be allowed to march. what i wont agree to marching is a uvf/uda front which has fascist backing.
lola
wel have to agree to disagree on the term jaffa.
pat d
words fail me. you have stricken me so deeply i may well have to retire from all political activity. good to know i'm annoying you.
one of your earlier comments was "orange feet will never walk on oconnell street", then you say you have no objection to the OO marching, you mightn't like it but wont do anything to stop it.
hypocrite.
not a hypocrite. just in the heat of the moment i used the ternmorange to refer to loyalists.
i have written here before that i dont oppose an OO march in dublin.
Charlie Bird got battered by a group of rioters, he said that they shouted "Charlie Bird!you're an Orange bastard" and then punched him to the ground. He got up and ran and they chased him,down the side of Cleary's. Two Branch men saved him from a serious hiding.
"self-styled 'anarchist photographer' on indymedia who appeared to be at the centre of the action wherever it was with a camera. Rather touchingly s/he photoshopped out the faces of some on the march wearing black hoodies, but not others wearing more national regalia. Presumably there is a hierarchy of comradeship in these situations - one I suspect from analysing the pictures which is more fond of mouthy middle-class anarchists than the proles in their Celtic jersey's"
Well done to all those who took part in today's protests against the Orange Bastards. They didn't succeed in marching down our streets. Well done to RSF for being the only true Republican party to be in attendance and fuck Gerry Adams and anyone else who condemned us protestors. The protests on O'Connell Street were justified although some fools got out of hand and started to pick on small businesses and cars that probably belonged to fellow republicans. Other than that it was a great day for Ireland. We showed our brethren in the North that we are not all Free State wankers who abandond them. As for the gardai, they were an absolute disgrace, hiding behind their batons. I watched as they cornered an elderly man and beat him repeatedly over the head as he tried to cover himself up. This happened near the Spire and there were a lot of witnesses. As for the media, from what I saw on the news and heard on the radio they were an even bigger disgrace. The coverage of the protests was a complete sham. The lies were unbelievable. They completely twisted everything to suit the gardai. Did they show the peaceful protestors who sat down and linked arms being beaten by the gardai? NO! Did they show that elderly man being cornered and beaten over the head even though there were cameras nearby? NO! I was one of those attacked as I sat on the ground with a few others to block their path. A cameraman just a few inches away recorded me as I defended myself. I was beaten over the back, leg and hand by the scum and I fought back and I got in a few nice digs. Of course, I turned on RTE news at 5 and what do I see? A nice closeup of me swinging at the gard. Nothing else. No footage of the gards doing any wrong! Fuck the gardai / RUC, Fuck the Free State media, Fuck Bertie, Fuck McDowell and fuck all free state bastards.
TIOCFAIDH AR LA
I am a republican socialist, I disagreed with the march, which I believed to have very little to do with victims and FAIR which seems to claim protestants who died in the troubles were innocent but catholics got what they deserved. But as a republican I believed they should be allowed to demonstrate as long as it was in a non residential area.
The so-called republicans who caused the march to be cancelled are nothing more than fascists and have done a great disservice to the cause of a United Ireland. To use the NO PASERAN! mantra of the Spanish Revolution is such a disgusting misuse and rape of the memory of the brave socialists who fought against the kind of fascism you seem to be blissfully unaware you are preaching.
i as a republican have no objections to the orange order marching, but in their own areas,
why? has anyone ever read the secret orange order degree,
it is an ancient piece of sick sectarian dribble,
http://www.nireland.com/evangelicaltruth/purple.html
have a read at this, orange order rituals uncovered, i wanted to discover what they were about after a work colleuge displayed a branding on his skin of a 5 pointed star , while telling of his initiation into the order, its like which craft of some sort
they are not allowed in chapels,are not allowed to stand for a catholic child, , but its the manner in which these laws are written.
with these laws that the orange order, black preceptory, and so on abide by,
so they never had intentions of parading in dublin to emalgamate amongst irish tradition or culture,
and ye hear this babbling, of ' how are we to fit in ,in a united ireland, look youze throw stuff at us' while the lambeg and flutes sound vile anti catholic music, kick the pope this and that, and 'hell is in the falls' 'f t pope and the vigin mary' and this is light to some of their garbage.
while they wish to be loyal biggots of the orange order or what ever they have no place in my community,,,
let them stay in their own and march all day, they can hate me if they want from over there.
we know it was a political point scoring exorcise theyve ventured on under wee wulie frazars leadership, and big ians guidance
mcdowell should have read this http://www.nireland.com/evangelicaltruth/purple.html
first before encouraging these animals down to our capital city
I'm not a republican, just a citizen of this state.
A lot of commentators here have tried to make an argument that the OO had a "democratic right" to march down O'Connell Street. Apart form the obvious point that the OO are not noted for their advocacy of democratic rights, a couple of points some to mind.
The right to expression applies to citizens of the state. The Loyalists by definition do not want anything to do with this citizenship and therefore have no basis to claim this right. Also, I suggest that no-one has a "right" to march to express their pathological hatred of a section of the population such as Catholics.
They have no more right to march down O'Connell Street than I would have a right to bring a group of Irish people over to march protesting "rights for whites" in, say New Orleans. And if the locals then took exception to our presence, should I be surprised if some cars get burnt, shops get looted or the police get attacked?
not that i would ever dream of doing like, but if itook part in a republican procession which ventured close ( not passing, or through) a loyalist area, it would be bullets id be dodging not stones or traffic cones.
Could someone tell me what is wrong with being against Catholicism? There is no evidence whatever that most Orangemen are against Catholics in the racist sense. If a Catholic renounces Catholicism and embraces, say, Presbyterianism he'll be welcomed with open arms by the Orangemen, probably invited to speak at an Orange gathering and his Irish Catholic ethnic/racial origins won't matter one hoot. But, Orangemen abhor Catholicism as an ideology. They regard it as superstitious and undemocratic. They believe the Pope is autocratic and that his decrees are contrary to the common good. And they believe that Mass and the literal interpretation of Holy Communion as the Body of Christ to be blasphemous nonsense. I myself am a practising Catholic. I will be attending Mass in the morning and will be receiving Holy Communion. But I respect the right of Orangemen to take an entirely different view about my religious beliefs, just as I respect their's. That doesn't make them racist, any more than it makes an atheist, who also thinks Catholicism to be hocus-pocus, a racist. What's interesting is that most socialists and anarchists who post on here have very similar views to the Orange Order about the Catholic Church. They too regard it as superstitious nonsense and they too regard the Pope as evil. I must repeat that's not my view. But, if its ok for socialists and anarchists to hate Catholicism as an ideolgy, why is not ok for the Orangemen to hate Catholicism as an ideology without being accused of racism? Sorry to lift the tone of the debate to a level most posters on this site are unaccustomed to. An intelligent response would be appreciated.
New levels indeed. Sadly no intelligent answer is possible to your ignorant and ridiculous post .
Well I for one am not anti-catholic. I'm not a very good Catholic either but there you are.
You're confusing the issue - the OO is not so much anti-catholicism as anti-catholics. If they merely want to make a point about being against the Catholic Faith, why do they prohibit anyone being a member who who had a Catholic _grandparent_?
In fact if that's all they're about, why bother have an Order at all? Isn't their church enough? Or do they need to enforce this belief a little more strongly than that? - Which is where we come to the point that they are anti-catholics.
Well done to all who helped to stop these loyalist thugs from marching. We all know about their associations with the likes of Combat18, BNP etc. Stopping the loyalists marching is exactly the same as stoppingthose british fascists from marching.
Shame on our politicians for their handling of this event. Mcdowell and his ilk are absolutely unsuited to hold public office in a democratic state.
being against Catholicism for loyalists meens that 'all taigs are targets' which i am made aware of by memories of my son near being shot at the age of 5 by possibly 1 of those scum bags in dublin today, and also by a big enough painting of ATAT on a wall everytime i come out of my community.
sectarianism must be ended, institutions like the orange order which breed this hatred must be abolished.
loyalists have murdered to many people because of their religion.
it is not hatred against anothers religion anyone wants to preach, but an understanding and respect of others.
Who told you that one about the Orange Order banning anyone who had a Catholic grandparent? Its nonsense. I couldn't even be certain that King Billy himself didn't have a Catholic grandparent. Monarchs changed their religion a lot in those days. As far as I'm aware you can't join the Orange Order if you're a Catholic or married to a Catholic. That's the only restriction. But then, you can't join the Knights of Columbanus if you're a Protestant. And it was only in the 1960s that the Catholic Church allowed Catholics to marry Protestants. Although I'm a practising Catholic and believer in Catholicism, I see no evidence that Orangemen hate me as an individual. They certainly would consider me to be immersed in superstition because of my beliefs, but then so would most socialists and anarchists.
You could say the same about republicanism. They murdered hundreds of people because of their religion. It cuts both ways. What about the Kingsmill massacre, La Mon restaurant and a score of others? What republicans have is double standards. They want to stop Orangemen marching through the centre of Dublin because possibly, just possibly, some of them have in the past been involved in violence against Catholics. But, the republicans claim the right to march through the centre of Belfast even though possibly, quite possibly, some of them have in the past been involved in violence against Protestants. So, what's the difference? Spare us your whining next time republicans want to march past Belfast City Hall and the loyalists oppose it.
belfast republican - ENRFB says "i as a republican have no objections to the orange order marching, but IN THEIR OWN AREAS"
In their own areas eh ? What was that nice woud The South Africans used to have to describe this mentality !
Well it seems I was worng on the grandparents. It's just Catholic parents (any Catholic parent) are prohibited. This means that they do not simply prohibit being married to a Catholic, or attending Catholic services. The poiint still remains: If they are not anti-catholics as opposed to anti-catholicism, why the prohibition on Catholic parents?
http://www.serve.com/pfc/orders/loyal.html#Qualifications
I can't answer for the Knights of Columbanus or the socialists or the anarchists - why should I? Should you?
Here's another oine for you John. I have a brother living in Derry. At Orange parades through Spenser Road on the Waterside, many of the inebriated brethren express their faith by running into Catholic sidestreets and urinating in the doorways, to the background of fingers raised and jeers. Perhaps you could explain the theological basis for this?
The unionist and their ilk are smarter than I gave them credit for, to plan such a march and then instigate the the riot. Who has won and who has gained from today.
The depressing thing is, that bigots are empowered by this stupidity and ultimately strengthens the hands of the sessessionists.
To badly parapharse, Is nationalism the sole preserve of the idiots and assorted scumbags.
Christopher, my own gut feeling from seeing the photos on this site and on TV is that most of the violence today was instigated by the disenfrancised youth of Dublin. I doubt they have any political awareness or allegiance to anything and for them it was simply an opportunity to run amok and they did. I am sure the same type of youth live in any other big city like Belfast, London, Paris.....
It is clear though that we will all loose because the government will use this as an opportunity to curtail civil liberties and maybe even try and bring in Id cards on the back of it. There is no way that somebody like McDowell was unaware of the potential for trouble and he quite clearly will make good use of today. Time will tell.
I think i might be confused, how can one be anti-catholics and not anti-catholicism? i dont say this to be a smart ass but because i really don't see the logic.
David, I am apalled also at the violence. However, I have read in the Daily Ireland that Willie Frazer of "Love Ulster" refused to rule out the parade carrying a photo of a dead Dublin-Monaghan bomber called Robert McConnell, who is also implicated in the killings of 55 Catholics in NI. Surely it was not much to ask for them to agree not to do this. Otherwise it looks to me like this group - which invited paramilitaries to join in their Belfast march - was seeking to provoke. Before I found out about this on a forum, I was of the view that while I strongly disagreed with the ideology behind the march i.e. anti GFA, anti Southern involvement in NI, that we should put up with it to show Northern Protestants their tradition would be tolerated in a United Ireland. However, it seems to me that carrying such a photograph crosses the line between cultural expression and provocation. In a UI, there has to be equality, but taunting people about their dead relatives goes too far don't you think? I still oppose the violence. It should be noted however that only 300-400 people were involved in it. That's 1/10000 th of the population i.e. 0.0001%. The rioters do not represent me. But I have a feeling Love Ulster feel glad that this happened. Now they can paint the South as that place that doesn't "want a Prod about the place", which is of course rubbish.
"Loyalists may carry Dublin bomber pictures
by Ciarán Barnes
23/02/2006
Organisers of a loyalist march through Dublin have said they cannot guarantee that images of a man accused of murdering 26 people in the city will not not be displayed during the demonstration.
Speaking to Daily Ireland yesterday, Love Ulster organiser Willie Frazer said: “I can’t give a guarantee a photograph of Robert McConnell will not be carried because I wouldn’t be against anyone carrying Robert’s photograph.”
Robert McConnell was a dual member of the Ulster Defence Regiment and Ulster Volunteer Force. He murdered scores of Catholics in the 1970s.
He played a part in the 1974 Dublin and Monaghan bombings in which 33 people died. Twenty-six died in the Dublin attack.
Speaking in 1999, John Weir, a former member of the RUC with whom Robert McConnell went on murder missions, implicated him in a further eight killings.
The mass murderer was shot dead by the IRA in 1976. Images of him have been carried at previous rallies organised by Mr Frazer’s victims group Families Acting for Innocent Relatives.
Despite the weight of evidence linking McConnell to at least 41 sectarian murders, Mr Frazer defended the killer’s reputation.
“Anybody I know who knew Robert would say there is no way he was involved in anything. He was involved with the security forces and he helped the SAS and stuff like that but a lot of people would say that was just part of his job,” said Mr Frazer.
Relatives of those murdered in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings criticised Mr Frazer. Margaret Irwin of the Justice for the Forgotten group said his defence of McConnell was “very insensitive”.
She said: “We have very good information that McConnell was involved with the gang who we are convinced carried out the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.
“We believe McConnell was involved in up to 55 murders. There can be no doubt he was heavily involved with loyalist paramilitaries.”
Up to 1,000 loyalists and six bands are expected to take part in Saturday’s Love Ulster parade along O’Connell Street. The march is to start at 12.30pm and is expected to last one hour.
Orange Order members will take part but will not wear sashes or collarettes.
Yesterday morning, Republican Sinn Féin held a press conference in Dublin at which the party unveiled plans to protest against the march. The Continuity IRA has also vowed to disrupt the parade.
Love Ulster held a victims rally in Belfast last October. The event was widely criticised because it failed to give any mention to those who had suffered at the hands of loyalists and the state.
Loyalists paramilitaries such as Ulster Defence Association leader Jackie McDonald helped launch the Love Ulster campaign last September. "
Right folks let me get this straight, the Love Ulster guys aren't allowed to walk down O'Connell Street because they may or may not sympathise with Loyalist bombers. So by the same token no Irish Republicans should be allowed to have demos in London, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool or Glasgow eh?
I hate to break it to you folks. . .
Follow the thread emerjenn.
I was responding to the argument that the OO is not anti-catholic but really a faith-based organisation who are expressing their theological view that catholicism as a religion is wrong.
Do you believe that there's no difference? It's OK to be anti-catholic people because of a theological dispute?
I hate to break it to you Harry. The people in these marches in England are residents in Britain and whether or not they are republican they have a right to express their views - they have a vote, whether you agree with them or not. I had similar tight when I lived in Britain, and had a vote and expressed my opinion by partaking in the Poll Tax riots in Trafalgar Square.
I'll say it again. I'm a citizen of this state. Any other residents of this state have a right to demo and express their opinions such as the Polish workers who were marching for their rights recently. They live and work here.
FAIR, the OO and their supporters expressly do not want to be citizens or residents of this state. Therefore, they do not have an automatic right to march down the streets of my capital city and express their hatred of catholics (have you heard what those marching bands shout when they're marching?). Just as I would not have a right to organise a bunch of Irish people to go and demand Rights foir Whites in New Orleans. If I did, I would know what to expect. No matter who would make a fatuous argument that I was merely expressing an opinion!
no no, thats not it, i dont see how its possible to be opposed to every catholic person, catholic people as a whole, and not opposed to the catholic faith.
Reports, I found have been quite selective.Some of the violence was terrible The main thing to remember is that the Orange Order did not march their Union Jacks down our steets. RSf were the only ones that had the balls to protest. At the start it was mainly what are called "dissident" republicans you were soon joined by socialists anarchists and general scumbags. The wanton destruction of small shops and bikes was totally disgraceful as was what happened to chalie bird. That said the riot on OConnel street was to my mind justified. The drunken scumbags who were left at the end did random prperty damage as a lot of republicans had left as soon as news that The Order had gone home came through. Bíodh náire ar na gardaí agus ar na bastúin a scrios rudaí go fánnach.
Ok, so what you're saying is that the riots were good? and what is it exactly that the gardai should be ashamed of? counter-protest is one thing, wonton destruction another.
also should point out that i do think most of the damage and looting etc was done by people taking advantage of the situation, but it can't be denied that certain people in the republican movement had a hand in it....
So some unionists were marching. So what? What was the big deal. What happened was an absolute disgrace and I was ashamed to be a nationalist. The only other time I've been ashamed is after the Omagh bombing.
I'm a Brit and a prod and proud of it. But all you self-flagellating "oh I'm so ashamed" crowd are either to the right of Atilla the Hun, or you can't see that you've been hood-winked by your own sad corrupt government. The whole thing was a set up! They wanted a riot - like our government did during the poll tax riots here in London (mind you, their tactics back-fired that time).
And how come the Orange crowd were going to march past the GPO - of all the routes in Dublin they went for that one???. Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Dublin protestors most justified response has definitely left me looking forward to taking on the Columbus Day celebrants, who every October in Denver Colorado, parade their triumphalist white supremacy in celebration of a genocidal maniac whose invasion of Turtle Island instigated the mass slaughter of her indigenous peoples. As it is often remarked here, "What's the difference between Hilter and Columbus? Answer: One of them has a holiday."
Thank you Dublin.
None of this should be confused with true republican values. All logic points to the fact that there was sufficient knowledge of the possibility of this sort of thing happening in advance, to warrant a sufficient riot safeguard to be in place, which it was not. 10 riot cops Vs 100plus rioters.
At best, it is extreme incompetence on the part of the Guards and/or the Government in underestimating the threat level, and at worst it was forseen and allowed to take place because of some agenda related to 'police reservists', 'arming the cops' or something to do with the police process. That's politics. This is the simple logic of the events on saturday.
P.S. Inner city Inequality is an explination but never, ever, an excuse! They were the usuall scumbags all right, and in my world there is such a thing as blue collar scumbags too. If you always want to see it all in terms of a 'class war' you can always have it that way.
'I tell ya, every unionist in Northern Ireland is going to be looking at those TV pictures tonight and of that iconic picture of a riot-strewn O'Connell Street - and they're all going to be thinking well, this is the reception that awaits us in a united Ireland, this is the reality of what happens when victims of IRA violence try to raise their voice in today's Republic.'
Yes David
This is what will happen to your community when you come down to Dublin. It seems to me that unionists are looking for any reason, Now they have one. This will now be a sticking block for them for another 100 years.
David, If you have any experience of Dublin and it seems you do, you know that these acts where carried out by scum not the peole of Dublin. I for one am not going to apologize for that lot.
And speaking of feeling welcome, Where is the welcoming spirit of the North? remeber mate, this all stemmed from a CIVIL march in your town, not mine. Just a reminder mate.
As for the behaviour of republicans, I don't see how that applies to me - I'm not one. Got to admit though I haven't seen them vomiting all over O'Connell Street after the Wolfe Tone Commemoration - isn't that in Kildare? And I'm sure I'd have heard of it if they had gone out of their way to do it to to Protestants which is the pojnt I'm making here - the OO members with their sashes proudly sporting run into catholic sidestreets and piss ijn the doorways. Not exactly a theological statement. So the point isn't anti-social behaviour but hatred of catholics.
The same would apply to any "socialist anarchist or communist" (which I'm not btw) who would behave in the same way - but I havn't seen them do that either. Sure they rant about catholicism (and I've got to admit they're often too right in their criticism) - but I havn't heard of them running up to to catholic doorways and pissing on them. And if they did, I'm sure some of the residants would deny them this democratic right.
I don't know Eamonn McCann but if you want to have an argument about JP II I have a few opinions aboiut him which are probably the same as McCann's. Again, that wouldn't make me want to run into the vatican and piss on the doors of St Peter's.
If you believe that OO have a deep respect for others' religion, doesn't that prove my point - they're hatred is for catholics mrather than the religion. Or do you really belive that the pogroms and the gerrymnandering and the "Prtoestant State dfor a Protestant People" and the unfair hoiusing allocations had nothing to do with them?
As regards the Catholic parents prohibition in the OO I showed you evidence by my link. I can show you more if you want. You may of course continue to believe that it's not true. Of course you have a right to deny reality, and I won't piss in your doorway if you do.
You have little to be ashamed of if yesterdays events shamed you. Would you have been happier if one of the Dublin/Monaghan bombers had been commemorated in O'Connell Street? Make no mistake: "FAIR" are a loyalist organisation with links to the UVF. Willie Frazier was refused a license for a personal protection weapon by the PSNI. The reason? Because of his links with the UVF.
bigots re-inforcing bigots views, saw a young girl, about 14 from town shouting at some rioters "you gave them what they wanted and you ruined our town" more words of sense than most of the ill-informed comments here
What's there not to be ashamed of after yesterday's riots? the burned out cars? the looting? the general breakdown of law and order?
f a i r spokesman is willie frazer who in my opionion is the most biggoted man in northern ireland how he can be the spokesperson for this beggers belief, i would be ashamed to have him as my spokesperson, especially when you take into account that the p.s.n.i. refused to issue him with a license for a weapon for personal protection because of his his links with the u v f
It seems from media coverage that the fact that several bands marched and played in from of the Dail was missed. This was taken from the junction of Molesworth Street and South Fredrick Street, which was as close as I could get. Most people I talk to are convinced no March took place.
by Neandtheral Sun Feb 26, 2006 19:33
Make no mistake: "FAIR" are a loyalist organisation with links to the UVF.
-so what!!
FAIR have links with loyalist groups is just the same as other groups having links with republican groups.
I'm tired of hearing people say this will put a hold on Irelands unification. The only progress made in the north in the last few years is the IRA disbanding. The loyalists or unionists haven't done anything except kill each other and attack the PSNI. Do we really want these people in our country anyway?
mickeen your argument about why FAIR should not be allowed to march in Dublin but republicans should have the right in Britain is nonsense.
Should asylum seekers and refugees who don't have citizenship or the right to vote etc not be allowed to march in O'Connell St? Supporters of FAIR don't want to be part of this state but whether they like it or not under Irish law they are citizens of this state and have the right to Irish passports etc (thats why someone from Northern Ireland is able to be the president of this state!) so they have as much right to march on the streets of Dublin as anybody else and it is incredible that republicans argue against that. On Saturday a lot of the people protesting and involved in the riot were sectarian bigots who weren't just shouting anti-OO slogans they were shouting against northern protestants and a theme of the whole thing was let them orange bastards down here so we can kick the fuck out of them. I heard this sentiment expressed throughout the whole thing.
FAIR like many other Loyalist groups have links with Fascists. I mean real Fascists who wear Swastikas hate Jews, deny the Holocaust. Groups such as Combat 18 and the BNP. Love Ulster Parades in England and Scotland have been stewarded by Combat 18 and the BNP.
Ask Willie Frazer about that. Ask him why he thinks UVF members who bombed Dublin and Monaghan should be commemorated in Dublin.
Whatever about how the aftermath of the situation was handled?
Dont let the bufoon McDowell off the hook so easily and examine why this 'march' was given permission to take place in the first place...
If, as claimed, this was simply a march to commemorate the victims of IRA violence,
Why was it felt necessary to wear the red,white and blue Flute Band uniforms normally reserved for 12th of July Sectarian parades?
Why would a victims commemoration march feel compelled to carry Flags & emblems associated with military parades?
Why would a genuine victims parade single out only one section of the norths 3,500 victims for rememberance and ignore the many hundreds of victims of Loyalist murder gangs like the Shankill Butchers?
They are only angry about being denied their 'march' simply because they can usually 'bully' their way across the nationalist areas of the north backed up by their very own PSNI.
I wonder how understanding would Willie Frazer/Jeffrey Donaldson be if the relatives of nationalist victims of loyalist & the british security services decided to hold a parade on the Shankill Road, wearing green, white and orange uniforms with a couple of republican bands thrown in for effect?
Dont be fooled by them, they were in Dublin solely to flaunt their flags & stamp their feet and how dare they pretend they spent 30 years as victims when the statistics clearly show for a large period the community they clain to represent, were in fact the agressors.
Make no mistake, this 'march' had nothing to do with expressing a legitimately held view or culture, Like their close friends in the BNP, this was an anti-catholic, anti-irish, semi-paramilitary parade, intended solely to provoke and led by bigots.
If they had any decent intentions at all they should have been apologizing for the Dublin/Monaghan bombs not glorifying the killers.
Good riddance to them, i'm only sorry the Gardai got caught in the middle and the clowns in government who swallowed their propaganda should be forced to resign in disgrace!
how were the loyalists provoking the republicans on that day?
cos it seemed to me that they were gonna have a riot no matter what!
If someone has to tell you mate, you really need to get out more.
after all this time & close to 3,500 people killed, how can you seriously ask a question like that?
While the riot in Dublin itself was a despicable act of blatant catholic sectarianism and fascism it did show one thing: a working class, angry and sizable, still exists in Ireland.
The people who rioted where those bypassed by the Celtic Tiger. They are the unemployed, the menial wage workers and the undesired of the areas such as Jobstown and Ballymun where in any normal country would have been improved by the government. But thanks to the currnet laisez-faire Fianna Fail and unashamedly capitalist PD junta, these area`s are being "re-developed"(being completely demolished and in their place: office blocks, car parks and expensive, over speculated and over priced
appartments are built.). The former inhabitants are treated as sub-human by the bourgeoise civil service and are moved to poorly built council estates away from the area they were raised in and away from their friends where they fall back into the pattern of crime and vice familiar to them when they lived in their locality.
These people have their homes taken away by an insensitive,capitalist and bourgeoise government. They are tricked, laughed and despised by the gombeen men of contempory Ireland: the capitalist property developer. They buy the right-wing lies of the right-wing catholic media(the indo and the sun) and blame minorities such as protestants and non-nationals for their problems. They get desperate and either support some criminal gang or support some extreme organization such as the IRA.
Don`t get me wrong. I am a socialist and I support Sinn Fein. But I believe a united Ireland can only be constructed with the help of the Unionist working class. When they come over to our side only then the catholic and protestant bourgeoise, who have perpetuated our struggle with economics, ourselves and Britian and a socialist, truly democratic republic as aspired by Tone, Connolly and Pearse can be forged.
To get to the Unionist working class we must respect their traditions. With common courtesy they will respect ours and we will unite. The government could have avoided this by treating the Working Class of Dublin with some respect. But due to the mindset of parties like the PD`s, like Independant News and Media,and people like Dan McLaughlin and Micheal McDowell this wont happen. And as usual in Ireland: the beautiful but tragic land where the past repeats itself, the past continues to repeat itself. Over and over again now
What's wrong with free speech, and a peaceful march? What's right about violence, threats, criminal damage. Seems to me the rioters, quasi republicans, have something to fear. A clear demonstration of shooting yourself in the foot. Céad Míle Fáilte, I think not.
All political factions and especially government: thrive on dissent and use it to justify their own policies and ends and more oppresive legislation..Meanwhile Your/our heritage is being raped ( as at Tara ) by those wishing to line their own pockets.
Indymedia Ireland is a media collective. We are independent volunteer citizen journalists producing and distributing the authentic voices of the people. Indymedia Ireland is an open news project where anyone can post their own news, comment, videos or photos about Ireland or related matters.