2006 - the struggle continues

by k Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:20

" I think indymedia can be a platform of debate for all leftists. Lets use it."

Indymedia is here to be used as a news source, and a place where you can contribute news stories. The primary function of it is NOT a vbulletin-type forum or BBS. The comment options is there for peer review of and response to stories. If you have stories with news content in them, about a particular issue, campaign, protest, incident, etc then post them up here.

If you are looking for a platform for debate, then there are many irish based online forums where this can happen, three that spring to mind off the top of my head are http://www.boards.ie, http://www.p45rant.net, and http://www.politics.ie

That is not to say that debate is unwelcome here - but generally speaking when a comment thread descends into the usual online forum style of personal insults, one word replies, bad language, and so on, it will probably be deleted by the editorial collective.

by Des Derwin Mon Jan 02, 2006 01:44

Goodness gracious me, Leftism, you’re my alter ego. More or less. You’ve said, more or less, what I might have said. Maybe I was a sup over the eight and posted that myself. Maybe you are me? Happy New Year, whatever which way.

k (sera?), it’s a bit late to be prescribing that IMC (Indymedia – Newswire?) is for news and news related comments only! Political debate, for better or for worse, has been a staple of Newswire for ages now. The ‘worse’ part arises largely from anonymous posters putting up offensive, personal, sectarian and mischievous comments. This causes most political discussion threads to be marred by, or degenerate entirely into, vicious and embarassing bear pits. Or inter-trainset battles. As the editors [was k speaking for the editors?] have steadfastly refused to bar anonymous, or at least anonymous and offensive, posters, we shall just have to live with the trolling and the abusive static.

Where people have debated seriously and civily Inymedia has provided another really useful service, a forum, for its readers and its (reasonable) contributors.

by Chekov - 1 of IMC Tue Jan 03, 2006 01:58

First, just a reminder as to why we allow people to post anonymously. Many people are in positions where they do not want their bosses or future bosses to have an insight into their political opinions or the way they spend their working hours - hence banning anonymous contributions would limit the range of opinions that many people could express on the site and dramatically cut the number of contributors. We prefer to judge comments on their content - if it makes a coherent point, introduces a new piece of information or adds a new angle, it doesn't matter who wrote it. We are getting ever more efficient at identifying and removing abusive or content-free comments and stories and we'll only get better. So far we have managed to improve steadily in terms of content and audience without considering banning anonymity - so I really don't think it would be a good idea to drive so many contributors and opinions away.

Secondly, I'll try to agree with both K and Des regarding indymedia 'debates'. Many people are used to the culture of bulletin boards on the internet which often have little other purpose than providing a place for people to chat on the internet - not that there's anything wrong than that mind. However, indymedia aspires to be a place where people can gain information about issues of general public concern and hence we are only really interested in content that contributes to this in some form or another.

We frequently find that the difference between our aspiration and people's expectations - based on their experience of bulletin board culture - clashes. Hence we frequently find ourselves reminding people that indymedia is not a bulletin board and has different editorial goals.

On the other hand, indymedia is clearly also a place for debate. The difference being that somebody who wants to start a debate is obliged to do a basic amount of work and write an original story about the issue which they wish to debate - rather than just asking "what do people think of X?" as is often the case on bulletin boards.

Furthermore, we like comments to actually add something to the issue being discussed. Whether one anonymous poster agrees with another anonymous poster or what bands or films any particular poster might like are not relevant to our goals - we want original content that adds to stories and gives the reader access to as much information and analysis as possible. Although we have nothing against the sort of "community-building" small talk that dominates many bulletin boards, it doesn't add to our goals and in many ways undermines them - since things like in-jokes and banter between regulars also serve to alienate newcomers. We want indymedia to be approachable and open to the public at large.

I think that people on the left would be much better off seeing indymedia as a way of communicating with a broader public, rather than primarily a means of in-house debate within the left. We already have a much greater readership than any leftist publication and the vast majority of these readers are not leftist activists. I can't see this trend reversing itself any time soon. If leftists can produce informative articles and informed analysis on a consistent basis, they will win some of those 'ordinary readers' over.

I think that this potential of indymedia has been hugely under-appreciated by most of the statist and traditional left who seem much more likely to use indymedia to have a go at their rivals (which they would describe as 'engaging in debate') than they are to publish stories and analyses that are aimed at people who are not familiar with the leftist milieu and are not already convinced by leftist arguments. I should note that this is not a universal rule - there are some honourable exceptions - but it does hold true by and large.

So, definitely, yes, let's have more input from leftists of all stripes, but rather than focusing on debate within the left, let's have more basic reporting of stories, more analytical articles aimed at the public and remember that a huge majority of our readers are not convinced leftists. When people use indymedia for petty point scoring with rival groups, or worse still abuse the commenting system with 'sock-puppetry' and personal abuse, they are doing little more than helping to paint a very unattractive picture of the Irish left in its most public manifestation.

by Des Derwin Tue Jan 03, 2006 03:00

Thanks for that Chekov. Agree entirely.