Sligo based Nigerian Woman gone into hiding

by Sean Fri Dec 09, 2005 19:29

I am so ashamed that Irish people can treat people like this. I am going to do all in my power to stop this and to ensure McDowell and his FF friends lose power.

by Info Fri Dec 09, 2005 19:29

http://www.justice.ie/80256E01003A21A5/vWeb/pcNPOK5UHPSQ-en

by James Fri Dec 09, 2005 19:50

She should respect the laws of this land and not run from the law. She has had 'due process', at considerable expense to the Irish taxpayer. She should have the decency to leave the country and not force Ireland to deport her at further expense to the taxpayer.

by Emily Young - Athlone Families Together Sat Dec 10, 2005 02:18 emilyyoung at eircom dot net Carrickobrien Athlone Co Westmeath 0906475926

What an utter disgrace to issue a deportation order to this family. Has Mr McDowell, who resides under the title of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, any human feelings? Where is the justice this action? His overall accountability and that of the Immigration Officials in relation to deportation are very questionable and utterly unfair.
I absolutely abhor this action. I encourage your group to fight on and continue with your support of this family. To Pamela, her husband and little girls I say "you are welcome to Ireland". I know the vast majority of Irish people echo this wish.
Yours sincerely
Emily Young

by Steven Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:40

How do you claim to speak on behalf of the "vast majority of Irish people" ? The reason the vast majority of the Irish people voted to change the citizenship laws was to stop this kind of abuse our country has endured. Please do not post a screenshot of the reasons people voted yes - I'm not interested, that was just a sample poll.

This family have been asked to leave, they refused, now they must be deported at great expense to all taxpayers.

by Spoon Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:54

I seriously doubt they just suddenly decided to deport her for no reason whatsoever, there has to be a reason for it. Why is it never mentioned?

I'm sorry, but I cannot offer my support to a woman, who for all we know, could be dangerous.

by Justin Morahan - Peace People (Ind cap) Sat Dec 10, 2005 13:30

Keep up your good work.

In reply to James, if the "due process" she received is anything akin to that being meted out in some other jurisdictions, it will have been a travesty of justice.

In reply to Spoon, it's a good question "why are the reasons for deporting people never mentioned?"
The State is deporting them presumably because they are "illegal immigrants" - just like the thousands of Irish illegal immigrants in the USA for whom the same State of ours is fighting to stop their deportation.
"For all we know she might be dangerous" - what an empty reason for allowing the State to deport her.
For all we know you, "Spoon", might be dangerous, but that would not inspire me to give the nod and wink to your deportation.

by Ruairi Sat Dec 10, 2005 16:19

a rally is taking place in Dublin today in support of this woman. It is being organised by residents of the Globe house asylum seekers hostel in Sligo.

by Ruairi Sat Dec 10, 2005 16:32

Asylum seekers in Ireland are not allowed to work. They received 19 Euros per week. They live in cramped conditions (sometimes 6 to a room) in private hotels, mostly run by local developers and business people. They receive meals and accomodation for free but don't have a say in meal contents, meal time or meal quality.

They are left, sometimes for over 2 years, awaiting a 'judgement' by an overpaid panel of bureaucrats as to whether they are worthy to stay in this country.

They often experience abuse and discrimination and violence and many suffer isolation, trauma and loneliness.

They are 'dispersed' throughout the country and are away from friends, family and their culture and traditions.

They are not asking for us to give them anything, but a chance.

They didn't come here to steal or to destroy. They came here to escape...to be free...to live a life.

Ireland enjoys the benefits of a lifestyle that is based upon development and production. The raw materials of our products and indeed food often comes from countries that are warn torn and impoverished.

Our lifestyle is related to their suffering.

We must take responsibility for our ways and to extend the hand of help and friendship to whoever needs it.

We do not own this land or earth. We must live together and give to others when we can. The alternative is not worth thinking about.

It's time to wake up from the self-indulgent greed that allows one race or one creed to play God with the lives of others.

My heart goes out to Pamela right now. She is a woman in hiding. She is a mother without her children. Her children are without their mother. This is not about 'us' and 'them'. It's about people.

by steven Sat Dec 10, 2005 19:19

Ruairi, this is a sovereign country, we can decide who resides here. Rules are rules, if you don't meet the criteria, you should expect to be deported.

by James Sat Dec 10, 2005 21:18

Illegal Irish immigrants may have some politicians trying to help them but whats wrong with that. Personally I think that they should be deported from America. They knew they were illegal and if caught should face the consequences. No whineing.

But at least the Irish illegal immigrants are not claiming asylum to try and slow down their deportation, that is just downright abuse of the system. They then complain that their children are being taken out of school and taken away from their friends, when it is the asylum seeker parents that delay the process at every opportunity.

Ireland cannot offer asylum to all women and men in this world you are under threat or are suffering from poverty or female circumcision. We are talking about 100's of millions of people. If we do not hold firm on this we are inviting the floodgates to open. We can only take a few people; this is a fact.
Large scale third world immigration to a western country like Ireland would be a disaster. Talking about a clash of cultures.

I have noticed over the last few years that the eastern european immigrants are integrating very well and mixing with the Irish more and more. This is understandable as their are some cultural similiarities.

I have also noticed that in general their is almost no integration from third world / African immigrants especially amoung adults. This is dangerous and some Irish people have become resentful of their presence here. While this is regretable their is no point in screaming 'racist' at these people. They are reacting (badly) to a real tension in their community. If we ignore them what next, race riots. God forbid. We have to be cruel to be kind here, for everybodys sake.

by Kyle Sat Dec 10, 2005 23:12 Sligo Town.

James, I have read the Article above and from your previous comment, you say that Irish people are resentful of immigrants presence here. But it doesn't go far enough into explaining that if we were to say yes to every person seeking asylum, then we may as well scrap our laws completly. We can't be partial with the way we apply our laws.

by Me - personal capacity Sun Dec 11, 2005 14:18

For Irish people it is a totally different story. Irish people being deported from the US are not facing posssible torture or death.
You sit there so smug in your first world homes with no compassion. You are cold hearted.
When Irish people did face starvation and death we were allowed to leave this country and save our lives. And yet with an ignorant wave of your hand you sentance young girls to death. This women has lost a child and stand to loose more.

Female genital mutilation is the worst form of torture I can think of, and it is because this state does not consider it a reason to seek asylum that they are being deported.
That you ask why reasons are never given for deportation only reveals your ignorance. The reason for deportation is that they are not Irish, not european, not white. That is all.
We need people to work here because there are more jobs than people in Ireland. And we only offer these jobs tot he people who need them least. The people who need these jobs are those from the poorest countries, many of whom arrive here with qualifications and are send away.

It makes me sick the attitude of many Irish people who have forgotten our history. We were not always so rich. Now that we are doing better we become cruel and cold to others who suffer. We would prefer to see them die than allow a neighbour of a different ethnic origin move in next door. And we pride ourselves on being so generous and welcoming a country. Land of a thousand welcomes...

Allowing people who are in danger of being tortured and killed to stay in our country is not going to hurt our economy and would benefit us in many ways, not least of which is getting rid of the fear and ignorance so prevalent in Ireland at the moment.
Your view of the world as so black and whit (excuse the pun) sickens me. If they cant obey 'our' laws they should leave, and our law says they cant stay. The laws of this country are not always just. if the laws were putting your haome or your family in danger you would not have so hard a time questioning it.

Think about how priviliged you are only because you happened to be born in Ireland. Think of all the people born in different countries and imagine that could just as easliy have been you.
Think about someone else for once.

by Justin Morahan - Peace People Sun Dec 11, 2005 14:22

Just a request: please give us the evidence for the allegations that you have made and that you adorn with the name "facts" and "facts" that are "incontrovertible".

by James Sun Dec 11, 2005 16:05

So 'Me' thinks we are cold hearted. The running a democratic country involves the rule of law and fairness to all including the existing citizens.

-How many women under threat of female circumcision to you intend to give asylum to in Ireland. 1, 10, 100 million?
-What do you intend to tell the women who arrive after this number has been reached?
-How do you propose to pay for their housing and social welfare?
-How and where do you propose to build the thousands or millions of new homes for these people?
-Do you intend to let them bring their extended families with them?
-How many millions overall?
-What about the rights of existing Irish citizens as citizens of a soverign state to a say in the matter?
-What if they d'ont want 10 million African women arriving into a state of 4 million? Are they racist and cold hearted?
-Do you care about them or do they not count cause they are white?
-Are the asylum seekers that can afford to travel across europe to Ireland the most deserving refugees? Or our they just middle class africans? With the real refugees unable to flee?

Seriously 'Me' having a gushing heart is a nice attribute but in this world sadly people like you just get walked all over. You need to get real, your sentiments are purely that sentiments. Not the basis of an asylum policy.

by Shane Sun Dec 11, 2005 16:50 shanesligo at vodafone dot ie 0879562033

The reason the Dept Of Justice gave for sending Pamela, Naomi(4) and Jemima(3) back to Nigeria is that it is safe for them!!! If it was safe for them to return they would have returned long ago! She is here to protect her children from the barbaric practice of Female Genital Mutilation. She has already lost one daughter because of her in-laws carrying out the horrendous practice on their very own grand-daughter.. Do you think that she should be sent back to lose her other two daughters and her own life?
Do you believe in murder and torture being carried out on minors?

by reality check Sun Dec 11, 2005 18:10

How many EU countries did this woman pass through to reach Ireland?
What evidence is there that her life is at risk?
What knowledge have you of the true situation in Nigeria?

And in answew to your question , yes, the law applies to all. To decide that the law should not apply to someone on the basis of their race is real racism!!!

The game is up for the female genital mutilation claims of most of these women.It never was anything other than a convienient tactic to undermine the law.

In any event she should be returned to the country which was her first point of entry to the EU and you can be damn sure it wasn't Ireland.

by Kyle Sun Dec 11, 2005 18:13 Sligo Town

James,
I'm not disputing your arguement in any way.
My initial point was that we can't be partial with the way we apply our immigration laws otherwise we might as well not have any.
Some asylum seekers claim that Ireland is the first country he/she has landed in when in actual fact he/she has crossed several countries just to get here.

by Kevin Sun Dec 11, 2005 20:32

You said that "Some asylum seekers claim that Ireland is the first country he/she has landed in", 99% of these claimants could not possibly have reached Ireland without going through another safe country.

What's more, nobody from Nigeria could have gotten here without passing through another safe destination beforehand. I'm afraid you won't be getting my signature on the petition. Controlled imigration is the only way this country can continue to progress.

by Justin Morahan - Peace People Sun Dec 11, 2005 21:42

In your comment that was posted at 9.46 a.m., you make a serious allegation that "a large number of asylum seekers from Nigeria have been shown to be lying about the danger to their lives"
Later you refer to your allegation as "fact" and "incontrovertible" fact.
I've asked you for evidence of this but you have not given it.

by Kyle Sun Dec 11, 2005 22:47 Sligo Town

Kevin, I agree fully with you that there needs be controlled immigration laws in this country. I only said that many asylum seekers claim that Ireland is the first country they landed in when in actual fact it isn't. In many cases, the idea of landing in a 'first country' is considered a 'genuine' reason to gain asylum in a country. Yet, our Government believes this story from a good few asylum seekers and still grants certain individuals asylum when they don't deserve to be granted asylum. This is all I was highlighting.

by Black Irish Sun Dec 11, 2005 23:55

Deportation is a terrible way of dealing with anybody who has fears for their children's future.
Previous posts have used the old racist rhetoric, which 1950's Britain would of been proud of.
What do you care about the way Irish tax payers money is being spent or the democratic will of the Irish people.
By concentrating on the weakest people in society and immigrants of colour are low on the list, you have got a handy scapegoat.

Third world / African cannot integrate..but easten europeans do so more easily..give me strength !!!
Go on tell me I have not integrated..I am Irish Black and proud and at least equal to you.

by Justin Morahan - Peace People Mon Dec 12, 2005 00:04

Repetition is not what I asked for but substantiation of the allegations you graced with the name of "Facts" and "incontovertible facts". If you can't substantiate, you should withdraw the allegation, not just repeat it

Nowhere did I mention in this thread the Nuremberg Principles or the Geneva Conventions or the Dublin Convention.

by Supporter Mon Dec 12, 2005 14:16

below

by Support Network Mon Dec 12, 2005 14:27

visit www.LetThemStay.org

by Shanesligo Mon Dec 12, 2005 15:22 shanesligo at vodafone dot ie

The story of Pamela Izevbekhai and her two daughters’, Naomi (4) and Jemima (3), flight from Nigeria

Pamela Enitan Izevbekhai, (36) is a Nigerian seeking permission to remain in Ireland on humanitarian grounds with her two daughters, Naomi (4) and Jemima (3). Her husband, Tony and her 14-year-old boy remain in Lagos, Nigeria. She is here with her husband’s blessing.
She lost her first daughter, Elizabeth at the age of 18 months, in July 1994, due to her in-laws insistence on carrying out ‘Female Genital Mutilation’ on the innocent baby, (FGM is a tradition of her in-laws family, to which she was unaware until she had a baby girl in 1993). There is documentary evidence from Isioma Hospital & Maternity Hospital, Lagos where the child was brought to try and save her life.
Over six years later, she had Naomi on 28/12/00 and Jemima on 17/08/02. She spent the last 4 years in Lagos, protecting her 2 girls from her in-laws, from whom she came lots of threats, harassment and castigations for not letting them carry out FGM on them. Her in-laws made several attempts to snatch her children from their playschool, but were unsuccessful due to the diligence of the playschool headmistress, who was aware of the threat of FGM by her in-laws. Just before Christmas last year, her in-laws sent 2 of her husband’s cousins to try and snatch the girls from there very own home. Her husband, Tony, single-handedly, had to fight off his own cousins to protect his own 2 daughters from his own parents! This he did at great risk to his own life. It was also at this point that Tony said to his wife, Pamela, that he could do no more to protect either Pamela herself, or their two girls, from his family. He recommended Ireland as a safe Christian country and he went to great trouble and expense to make arrangements for them flee here to seek asylum on the grounds of persecution and another possibility of death through ‘Female Genital Mutilation’. She fled from her country for fear of persecution from her in-laws.
We received a fax on 8 Dec from Fr Sam Tumba, former Parish Priest of Pamela’s diocese and who acted unsuccessfully on behalf of Pamela and her 2 daughters in trying to convince the grandparents not to carry ouy out FGM on their two grandchildren. Fr Sam Tumba states it is unsafe for them to return to any part of Nigeria because of their family circumstances.

by Peter Mon Dec 12, 2005 15:26

You have to be real when it comes to asylum seeking. You can't just grant a person asylum when they don't deserve it. What if we were to say yes to every asylum seeker? The procedure has to be followed otherwise its not an asylum system.

by me - personal capacity Mon Dec 12, 2005 16:10

Yeah,
It's so convenient that you can brush off my argument just because it contains a hint of someone who gives a shit. Lets stick to nice cold hard facts shall we:
You pull figures out of your ass.

10 million this, 50 million that. 100 thousand billion starving africans on your doorstep.
Where did I say we shoud take 10 million people?
Where?
Nowhere.

Our economy NEEDS more people, our country could take more people. We have shitloads of money. SHITLOADS!
You hide your racsim behind a thin veil.
Why dont you go and read the star and pull some more figures out of your hole and stay off indymedia where people try to get a bit of reality for a change.

by Peter Mon Dec 12, 2005 16:16

My name is not James actualy.... I'm not being racist either. I'm only expressing my opinion on this matter and I am entitled to give my opinion.

by me Mon Dec 12, 2005 16:19

s'mazing that the "caring" side are first to resort to abuse and profanity.

Hatred dressed as compassion is hideous to observe.

by me - personal capacity Mon Dec 12, 2005 16:56

What's the point?
You're not going to address the issue are you?
Yes there is hatred. I am ashamed to Irish when I read these comments.
I'm not trying to be childish, I am trying to make you stop avoiding the real issues, stop making up random figures, and stop totally senationalising the issue, turning indumedia into a tabloid.

by me - personal capacity Mon Dec 12, 2005 17:17

"The vast majority are not genuine and do a terrible disservice to any genuine refugees."

Where did you get this 'fact' from?

Do you consider female genital mutilation a genuine reason? Just because our government says they are not genuine does not mean they are not.

"Yes we need workers - but via legal means - via the work permit scheme."

People who are not European cannot work here legally. Unless they are sent for by a specific employer. That was my whole point. It means the worst off people stay that way.
What make's a worker legal?
What I am saying is that our laws discriminate against these people. So being legal does not make things right in my oh so humble opinion.

by me - personal capacity Mon Dec 12, 2005 17:52

maybe you should have a read.
http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/femgen/fgm1.htm

So you're saying they should be able to leave nigeria but only to nearby places, other poor countries who have far less chance of being able to support them than we do. Burkina faso? Chad? Niger?

We're the second wealthiest counrty in the world but... anywhere but here basically.
Great.
Lovely logic.
Well done.

by Peter Mon Dec 12, 2005 21:03

So I take it that if a person doesn't deserve asylum, in your book you are just going to indefinitely give them asylum anyway?
How are you able to prove that some asylum seeking women who claimed Female genital mutilation are not lying?
Hatred is not the issue here, this debate is about asylum seekers. Don't know why you seem to twist this issue into making me or James out to be the monster/s here.

by Black Irish Mon Dec 12, 2005 22:44

..bashing is not the make an issue cause a scare tactic of the racist right.

Can you answer me a question, why waste your time on an issue which is about the freedom of an individual to bring up her children in the safety of this country, compared to the fear of the country of her birth.

Twice as many people migrated from Europe to the rest of the world as have come from the opposite direction.

Current theory also holds that human kind originated in East Africa and migrated to every part of the world, so all of us including you racists are desendants from African immigrants..great to know that we all have a common African ancestor.

Put controls on the movement of capital and goods not on people.

by nooly Mon Dec 12, 2005 23:09

"s'mazing that the "caring" side are first to resort to abuse and profanity."

you advocate racist inhumanitarian immigration policy and you have the nerve to label swear words 'abuse and profanity'? your attitude is what's abusive and profane, a little name-calling pales drastically in comparison.

by james Mon Dec 12, 2005 23:35

People like you resort to name calling when you cannot argue your point. When you know deep down you are wrong. You are bullys.

I merely stated that we must be strict in our asylum policy as we can only integrate small numbers, I would say less than 5,000 per year but that could be changed. I also feel we should limit it to the most deserving cases whom we know are genuine like refugees sent directly from refugee camps by the UN. Nothing wrong with that.

You however advocate admitting unlimited numbers of asylum seekers . How many refugees can Ireland take? Give a number? How do you decide who gets it?

You all refuse to answer the hard question the politicians have to. You lot are full of hot air. You do not have any valid arguements, just sob stories, profanities and abuse. You all refuse to put forward any workable alternatives. Asylum numbers must be controlled, everybody knows this! Anything else is a recipe for social unrest! Welcome to the real world.

Bleeding heart liberals is too nice a discription for you. You need to grow up and get real.

by Me - in a personal capacity Mon Dec 12, 2005 23:41

Where are you pulling this one from?

'So I take it that if a person doesn't deserve asylum, in your book you are just going to indefinitely give them asylum anyway?'

I seem to offend people by answering that question so I won't.

How do you know who is deserving of asylum and who isn't? Most people get send back before their feet touch the ground, others are thrown in mountjoy and left there overnight before being sent home.

The Irish people do not know their stories.
We have no idea. We are sheltered by the lovely Micheal Mc Dowell and co. who decide for us.
How democratic.

We never even get one story of what is going on in our name. The asylum system is so secret that we have no clue except the stories from the few who get by.

And the very people who will never make the effort to find out what is going on are the ones who assume they know it all, they 'know' the majority are lying.
How?

by James Tue Dec 13, 2005 00:41

I would also like more information from the department, but I do have confidence that those deciding are doing their best. Perfect? No. But they are UN trained and work to strict criteria. They do a difficult job.

You need to stop being so angry with the current system and concentrate your energies with a viable alternative and then try to get elected or start lobbying. No one will listen to you lot until you have a coherent alternative.

by SH Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:20

James thanks for the utter nonsense. It is very unfortunate that the real world didn't knock some sense into you. The basis of our asylum system should be that anyone who flee's persecution and needs our protection should be guaranteed it. There is no number on this, however it is idiotic in the extreme to suggest that the whole of Africa wants to come to Ireland. It is a deluded, unsophisticated argument which only utter morons pronounce. In Ireland deporting people takes prominence instead of the individual asylum seekers human rights.

Plenty of alternatives have been put forward. You just haven't bothered to check them out. One alternative is an open border. This has been debated on other threads and you can check it their. Other alternatives are offered by the Irish Refugee Council http://www.irishrefugeecouncil.ie/ and the Immigrant Council of Ireland http://www.immigrantcouncil.ie/ amongst others. You can follow the links through to their website.

As for the UNHCR training, in 2005 there was 6 training sessions for 73 people. Many of these training sessions were attended by the same people so their was less than 73 people trained this year by the UNHCR. Whats more since there is no transparency in the asylum system there is no way of verifying the judgements. What is clear is that asylum status appears to be given randomly with people who have similar cases having completely different judgements. Also is clear is the racist attitude of the immigration gardai as reported by jouranalists who have attended the GNIB on deportation day. And what is clear from Pamela's case is that the Dept. of Justice did not take into account the wishes of the local community. When judging an FGM case the Dept of Justice use figures given by the Nigerian Government to justify their refusal. This is despite the fact that the figures are utterly false. The WHO estimates the figure as nearly 5 times what the Nigerian government claims. The WHO estimated that 50% of females in Nigeria have had FGM performed on them. However they have also warned that the figure could be as high as 60%.

There has been much international criticism of Ireland and how it deals with racism. Amnesty internationals annual report can be viewed here http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/irl-summary-eng with the most interesting quote being "The Immigration Act 2004 was fundamentally flawed in its lack of respect for internationally recognized human rights". Ireland has also been criticised by the UN on how it deals with racism http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/12/10/story234393.html and new legislation is to be introduced.

by observer2 Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:00

Given that we live in a country that has since the inception of the state continuously adopted a racist stance against it's own minority community , travellers, why does anyone find it surprising that there is such a racist attitude?

What I find surprising is that those who are now so many and so vociferous on the issue of racism had been so silent for so long, obviously those who suffered racism and were Irish wern't considered valuable enough to support.

Just on a more human and realistic note, most Nigerians would be more welcomed in most Irish pubs and hotels than a member of the indigenous travelling community would, and no I don't have a major thesis or a document from a major international body po prove it, just my honest observations over the last couple of years.

So when can we expect residents against racism to protest at city hall decrying the total lack of facilities for those Irish members of society who are and have for centuries suffered the most appaling racism?

Or is it the case that RAR are only concerned with non nationals? Being against racism means being against all racism regardless of who the victims are.

To both sides in the above debate I say, get off your arse and go find your nearest halting site/roadside encampment . You might have some way to travel since you are unlikely to find it in "your own backyard".

by SH Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:09

RAR work with the likes of Pavee point and the Irish Travellers Movement. Many traveller spokespeople have spoken at RAR events and RAR spokespeople have spoken at Traveller events. RAR recognise all forms of racism including racism directed at Travellers. So in short your post is understandable but factually incorrect.

by observer2 Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:16

If I am incorrect about RAR then I apologise, I don't recall any RAR demos regarding the traveller rights issue. What I do know is that we regularly have local communities, in this case in Sligo, coming out in support of asylum seekers(and rightly so) however these are the same communities who, when a halting site is proposed for their area, are also out protesting and not to welcome the Traveller!!!

The link supplied is an example of what goes on in Sligo in terms of providing traveller accomodation.

by Peter Wed Dec 14, 2005 03:08 peter at samboeire dot com

"Due process" may have been followed, but was ill-informed and wrong! Deportation of Pamela would be this nations loss, as she is a role model for complete integration and positive influence. She is vibrant and active member of the local community.
She needs to stay, she wants to stay, we want her to stay, she must stay!!

by Pamela McBribe Wed Dec 14, 2005 20:53 pamelamcbride at o2 dot ie Ireland

Can you explain how it would be 'this nations loss'?

by shanesligo Wed Dec 14, 2005 20:59 shanesligo at vodafone dot ie

Well said, Peter ! Why is the state persecuting innocent people like Pamela, Naomi(4) and Jemima(3) ? What wrong have these people committed ? Why is the state going against the wishes of the people. What has happened democracy in our not-so-fair green land?
I know that over 1,000 people in Sligo have signed petitions on behalf of Pamela, Naomi and Jemima, asking the Dept of Justice and Minister McDowell to allow them stay. Local TDs, MEPs and The Bishop of Elphin have also pleaded with the Minister on behalf of Pamela,because they feel that this is a very genuine case. Let the people not forget that two little girls are depending on the good people of Ireland to protect them from gross abuse in the form of FGM.
Why are the people not being listened to? Is our democracry on the way out? Have people lost their power to have their say?

by Pamela McBride Wed Dec 14, 2005 21:08 Ireland

'Why is the state going against the wishes of the people'. I sincerely doubt it... Over 70% of voters voted to close the loophole in the citizenship referendum.

by shanesligo Wed Dec 14, 2005 21:12 shanesligo at vodafone dot ie

I'll explain how if you don't mind, Peter.
This would be a very very boring, dull country without, not just people like Pamela, Naomi, & Jemima, but the diverse mixture of nationalities that now live here. It is thanks to people like Pamela and many other nationalities that I have personally gained more friends from all over the world. These people have enriched my life and have also led me onto to make even more friends on a global basis. I can now go to many many countries where I can meet up or stay with friends of these and get right under the skin of those countries without feeling like a complete tourist . That's just one of a hundred reasons why diversity is good.
People like Pamela also come here with fresh viewpoints on life that have been forgotten here. They add to our culture, our music, our singing and even our sense of humour!!

by shanesligo Wed Dec 14, 2005 21:21 shanesligo at vodafone dot ie

Another Pamela? Excuse me, but I don't remember anything in the referendum about sending lambs to the slaughter. Because this is what this is all about. Their lives will be returned to very real jeopardy and those little girls will lose the right to achieve full womanhood. I don't want to go into full disgusting barbaric details, but maybe you should check out www.path.org for your own enlightenment and read all about the delights of FGM yourself. I presume you are a female by your name and I feel that youo should also know more about the real dangers awaiting these girls. Remember they have already lost their older sister, Elizabeth, who they never had the chance to meet, , because of FGM. The people of Sligo want them to stay here. The state has no right to go against the wishes of the people in these circumstances

by D. Connolly. Wed Dec 14, 2005 21:29

The people of Sligo speak for themselves.
You don't know what they wan't or don't wan't.

by shanesligo Thu Dec 15, 2005 01:36 shanesligo at vodafone dot ie

Female Genital Mutilation – The Facts
Compiled by Laura Reymond, Asha Mohamud, and Nancy Ali. Funding was provided by the Wallace Global Fund.

Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) is the partial or total removal of the female external genitalia.1 External genitals include the clitoris, labia, mons pubis (the fatty tissue over the pubic bone), and the urethral and vaginal openings.

The practice of FGM is often called "female circumcision" (FC), implying that it is similar to male circumcision. However, the degree of cutting is much more extensive, often impairing a woman's sexual and reproductive functions.2

Newborns, Children, Adolescents, and Young Adults Are Affected

Most girls undergo FGM when they are between 7 and 10 years old.4 However, FGM seems to be occurring at earlier ages in several countries because parents want to reduce the trauma to their children. They also want to avoid government interference and/or resistance from children as they get older and form their own opinions.5
Some women undergo FGM during early adulthood when marrying into a community that practices FGM or just before or after the birth of a first child (Mali and Nigeria).6
FGM is Practiced Globally

FGM is practiced in at least 26 of 43 African countries7; the prevalence varies from 98 percent in Somalia to 5 percent in Zaire. A review of country-specific Demographic and Health Surveys (DHS) shows FGM prevalence rates of 97 percent in Egypt8, 94.5 percent in Eritrea9, 93.7 percent in Mali 10, 89.2 percent in Sudan 11, and 43.4 percent in the Central African Republic.12
FGM is also found among some ethnic groups in Oman, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen, as well as in parts of India, Indonesia, and Malaysia.13
FGM has become an important issue in Australia, Canada, England, France, and the United States due to the continuation of the practice by immigrants from countries where FGM is common.14
There Are Four Types of FGM

In 1995, the World Health Organization (WHO) developed four broad categories for FGM operations.15

Type 1

Excision (removal) of the clitoral hood with or without removal of part or all of the clitoris.

Type 2

Removal of the clitoris together with part or all of the labia minora.

Type 3 (infibulation)

Removal of part or all of the external genitalia (clitoris, labia minora, and labia majora) and stitching and/or narrowing of the vaginal opening leaving a small hole for urine and menstrual flow.

Type 4 (unclassified)

All other operations on the female genitalia, including:

Pricking, piercing, stretching, or incision of the clitoris and/or labia;
Cauterization by burning the clitoris and surrounding tissues;
Incisions to the vaginal wall;
Scraping (angurya cuts) or cutting (gishiri cuts) of the vagina and surrounding tissues; and
Introduction of corrosive substances or herbs into the vagina.
Type I and Type II operations account for 85 percent of all FGM. Type III (infibulation) is common in Djibouti, Somalia and Sudan and in parts of Egypt, Ethiopia, Kenya, Mali, Mauritania, Niger, Nigeria, and Senegal.16

Complications Are Common and Can Lead to Death

The highest maternal and infant mortality rates are in FGM-practicing regions.17 The actual number of girls who die as a result of FGM is not known. However, in areas in the Sudan where antibiotics are not available, it is estimated that one-third of the girls undergoing FGM will die.18 Conservative estimates suggest that more than one million women in Centrafrican Republic (CAR), Egypt, and Eritrea, the only countries where such data is available, experienced adverse health effects from FGM.19 One quarter of women in CAR and 1/5 of women in Eritrea reported FGM-related complications.20 Where medical facilities are ill-equipped, emergencies arising from the practice cannot be treated. Thus, a child who develops uncontrolled bleeding or infection after FGM may die within hours.21

Immediate Physical Problems

Intense pain and/or hemorrhage that can lead to shock during and after the procedure. A 1985 Sierra Leone study found that nearly 97 percent of the 269 women interviewed experienced intense pain during and after FGM, and more than 13 percent went into shock.22
Hemorrhage can also lead to anemia.
Wound infection, including tetanus. A survey in a clinic outside of Freetown (Sierra Leone) showed that of 100 girls who had FGM, 1 died and 12 required hospitalization. Of the 12 hospitalized, 10 suffered from bleeding and 5 from tetanus.24 Tetanus is fatal in 50 to 60 percent of all cases.25
Damage to adjoining organs from the use of blunt instruments by unskilled operators. According to a 1993 nationwide study in the Sudan, this occurs approximately 0.3 percent of the time. 26
Urine retention from swelling and/or blockage of the urethra.


Immediate FGM-Related Complications in Four Kenyan Districts



A 1991 survey of 1,222 women in four Kenyan districts indicated that 48.5% of the women experienced hemorrhage, 23.9% infection, and 19.4% urine retention at the time of the FGM operation.23



Long-Term Complications

Painful or blocked menses. In 1983, 55.4 percent of women surveyed in Baydhaba, Somalia, reported abnormal menstruation.27
Recurrent urinary tract infections. A 1983 study in the Sudan revealed that 16.4 percent of women who had the operation experienced recurrent urinary tract infections.28
Abscesses, dermoid cysts, and keloid scars(hardening of the scars).
Increased risk of maternal and child morbidity and mortality due to obstructed labor. Women who have undergone FGM are twice as likely to die during childbirth and are more likely to give birth to a stillborn child than other women.29 Obstructed labor can also cause brain damage to the infant and complications for the mother (including fistula formation, an abnormal opening between the vagina and the bladder or the vagina and the rectum, which can lead to incontinence).30 Among 33 infibulated mothers followed at Somalia's Benadir Hospital in 1988, all required extensive episiotomies during childbirth. Their second-stage labor was 5 times longer than normal, 5 of their babies died, and 21 suffered oxygen deprivation because of the long, obstructed labor.31
Infertility. In the Sudan, 20-25 percent of female infertility has been linked to FGM complications.32
Some researchers describe the psychological effects of FGM as ranging from anxiety to severe depression and psychosomatic illnesses.33 Many children exhibit behavioral changes after FGM, but problems may not be evident until the child reaches adulthood.34 However, little research has been done on this subject.
FGM is likely to increase the risk of HIV infection – often the same unsterilized instrument is used on several girls at a time, increasing the chance of spreading HIV or another communicable disease.35


Chronic FGM-Related Complications Encountered by Health Providers in Kenya



The chronic health problems encountered by 49.1% of health providers surveyed in Kenya are bleeding (29.1%); delivery complications (25.5%); infections (12.7%); low libido (3.6%); and fear and depression (1.8%).43



Complications Often Need Medical Attention

According to a study conducted in a small rural village in Sierra Leone, 83 percent of women who had undergone FGM would require medical attention at some point in their lives for a condition resulting from the procedure. 36
A study of one hospital in Alexandria (Egypt) found that 1,967 hospital days were used in one year to treat FGM-related ailments.37
According to a survey of 55 health providers in the Nyamira District of Kenya, almost half encountered women with chronic FGM-related complications (see chart to right) while over half treated recent FGM-related complications.
FGM May Impede Women's Sexuality

Cultural values and ambiguities make women's sexuality very complex. This is also an area that has not been widely studied. Although it is difficult to verify reports of women's sexual experiences, physical complications from FGM often impede sexual enjoyment. FGM destroys much or all of the vulval nerve endings, delaying arousal or impairing orgasm.38 Lacerations, loss of skin elasticity, or development of neuroma (a tumor or mass growing from a nerve) can lead to painful intercourse. In a 1993 Sudanese study, 5.5 percent of women interviewed experienced painful intercourse while 9.3 percent of them reported having difficult or impossible penetration.39
In 1981, 1,545 Sudanese women who had undergone the operation were interviewed. Fifty percent of them said that they did not enjoy sex at all and only accepted it as a duty.40
Reasons for Supporting FGM Vary

Reasons for supporting FGM include the beliefs that it is a "good tradition", a religious requirement(s), or a necessary rite of passage to womanhood; that it ensures cleanliness or better marriage prospects, prevents promiscuity and excessive clitoral growth, preserves virginity, enhances male sexuality, and facilitates childbirth by widening the birth canal.

Until the 1950s, FGM was performed in England and the United States as a common "treatment" for lesbianism, masturbation, hysteria, epilepsy, and other so-called "female deviances".41
Religious affiliation can affect approval levels: A study in Kenya and Sierra Leone revealed that most Protestants opposed FGM while a majority of Catholics and Muslims supported its continuation.42
There is a direct correlation between a woman's attitude towards FGM and her place of residence, educational background, and work status. DHS data indicate that urban women are less likely than their rural counterparts to support FGM. Employed women are also less likely to support it. Women with little or no education are more likely to support the practice than those with a secondary or higher education.44 Data from the 1989 Sudanese survey (of women 15- to 49-years-old) show that 80 percent of women with no education or only primary education support FGM, compared to only 55 percent of those with senior secondary or higher schooling.45 A woman's age does not seem to influence support.
Most women who have had the FGM procedure are strongly in favor of FGM for their daughters.46 In Egypt, 50 percent of the women surveyed reported that they had at least one daughter who had gone through the procedure, while 38 percent intended to do so in the future. In addition, most of these women want their daughters to undergo the same type of procedure they had.49
Most women who favor ending the practice also feel they do not have enough information to convince men of the harmful effects of FGM.50 Men help continue the practice by refusing to marry women who have not had FGM or by allowing or paying for their daughters' procedures. DHS data indicate that, in general, women believe that their husbands' attitudes toward FGM are similar to their own.51 However, recent studies in Eritrea and Sudan found that men may actually be less supportive and more indifferent than women toward this practice.52


Reasons for Supporting FGM in Egypt, Mali, Central African Republic, and Eritrea



Today, the most common reason evoked for supporting FGM is the belief that the practice is a "good tradition".47 Other reasons include religious requirement(s); rite of passage to womanhood; cleanliness; prevention of promiscuity among girls; preservation of virginity; better marriage prospects; enhancement of male sexuality; prevention of excessive clitoral growth; and facilitation of childbirth by widening the birth canal.48



More Women Are Using Medical Staff, But Traditional Practitioners Are Still Active

FGM is still predominantly performed by "traditional" female circumcisers (91 percent in Côte d'Ivoire, 95 percent in Eritrea, and 88 percent in Mali).53 Typically, it is performed with sharp stones, broken glasses, scissors, or unsterilized razor blades without anesthesia.54
Health providers (such as doctors, nurses, and midwives) are increasingly performing FGM. In Egypt, girls are three times more likely (54.8 percent) to have FGM done by health providers than did their mothers (17.3 percent).55 Although this trend might reduce the pain and/or the risk of infection, it will not prevent the other complications.
Attitudes Are Gradually Changing

FGM prevalence rates are slowly declining in some countries, as indicated by lower prevalence rates among adolescents (compared to older women). In Kenya, a 1991 survey showed that 78 percent of adolescents had undergone FGM, compared to 100 percent of women over 50.56 In the Sudan, another study revealed that the prevalence among 15- to 49-year-old women dropped from 99 percent in 1981 to 89 percent in 1990.57
People are choosing less severe forms of FGM. A 1991 study in Kenya showed that 62.3 percent of women over age 50 had Type II FGM, while only 38.9 percent of the 15-19 age group underwent the same type (most of the remainder underwent Type I).58 A 1981 Sudanese survey of women – 94 percent of whom had undergone FGM – reported Type III FGM among 94 percent of the respondents' mothers, 83 percent of the respondents themselves, and only 51 percent of their daughters.59
Attitudes are also following this pattern of slow change. Eighty-two percent of 15- to 44-year-old women participating in a 1981 Sudanese study supported FGM. Almost a decade later, in 1989-90, only 78 percent favored its continuation.60 Considering how deeply engrained the practice is in the social fabric, this 4 percent change of attitude is significant. A recent study found that about 4 of 10 Eritreans want to see FGM discontinued.61 In Sierra Leone, survey respondents who had learned of the health risks associated with the practice generally favored modifying FGM to make it less painful or dangerous, or abolishing it altogether. Of those with college, university, or postgraduate education, 79 percent favored ending the practice.62
Recent research in Kenya reveals numerous reasons for a decline in FGM, for example, secondary education is associated with a four-fold increase in disapproval of FGM. Other reasons include: girls' refusal; greater access to health education; modernization with its resulting changes in lifestyle; fear of anti-FGM laws; public ridicule; and realization that FGM has no effect on girls' behavior.63
Among women who are against FGM, the main reasons given are medical complications and pain. Other reasons include: it is seen as a negative tradition; it counters religious belief; it prevents sexual satisfaction; and it diminishes a woman's dignity.64
Djibouti and Sudan restrict types of FGM, which has legitimized the practice and has led to medicalization instead of eradication.65 In some countries, FGM is available under more sterile conditions involving less "cutting", in an effort to lessen the immediate health complications. WHO, and many other agencies including PATH, however, oppose the modification of FGM and call for its complete eradication on the grounds that all FGM threatens the mental, physical, and psychological health of women and girls and violate human rights standards.
Global Efforts to Stop FGM Are Increasing

Programs

In more than 20 African countries, the Inter-African Committee on Traditional Practices (IAC) with the collaboration of local non-governmental organizations (NGOs) has launched an extensive educational campaign aimed at eliminating FGM. Women in Egypt and Sudan recommended education as the best means to end this practice.66
Various African NGOs are involved in research and eradication campaigns. These include The Comite National de Lutte contre la Pratique de l'Excision in Burkina Faso, the National Association of Nigerian Nurses and Midwives, the Maendeleo Ya Wanawake Organization in Kenya, the National Research Network in Senegal, the National Union of Eritrean Youth, and the Seventh Day Adventist Church in Kenya.
Technical assistance, advocacy, and funding are being provided by various national and international development agencies such as PATH (Program for Appropriate Technology in Health), RAINBE(Research, Action, and Information Network for Bodily Integrity of Women), Equality Now, the Centre for Development and Population Activities (CEDPA), Population Council, Wallace Global Fund, and Women's International Network.
Education about the harmful effects of FGM and its illegality is provided to African immigrants in Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Norway, Sweden, the United Kingdom, and the United States.
United Nations agencies (UNICEF, UNFPA, and WHO) issued a joint position paper and are increasing their efforts to eradicate FGM. WHO recently launched a 15-year strategy to accelerate these efforts.
The United States Agency for International Development (USAID), recently reviewed its FGM programming and increased its support for FGM eradication programs by working with technical agencies such as PATH, RAINBE, International Center for Research on Women, CEDPA, The Focus Project, and the Population Council.
Human Rights Efforts

FGM violates human rights conventions that protect women and children from cruelty and violence and ensure them "bodily integrity" and access to health care, education, and self-realization.67 Some of these conventions are:

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948)
The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (1959)
The African Charter on Rights and Welfare of the Child (1990)
The United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (1992)
The United Nations Declaration on Violence Against Women (1993)
The World Conference on Human Rights, Declaration and Programme of Action, Vienna (1993)
The United Nations High Commission on Refugees, Statement Against Gender-Based Violence (1996).
FGM eradication has also been included in resolutions and action plans at various international conferences, including the 1995 International Conference on Population and Development and the 1995 Fourth World Conference on Women. FGM is recognized as a human rights violation in the U.S. State Department's annual country reports.

Policy and Legislation

Countries with laws or regulations against FGM include Burkina Faso, Central African Republic, Djibouti, Ghana, Great Britain, Guinea, Sudan, Sweden, and the United States.68
Existing laws against assault and child abuse cover FGM in Canada, France, and the United Kingdom.69
Governments that support FGM eradication include Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Cote d'Ivoire, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gambia, Guinea, Kenya, Niger, Senegal, Sudan, Tanzania, Togo, and Uganda.70
The U.S. Congress Passed Legislation Against FGM

The practice of FGM on person(s) under the age of 18 is now a federal crime, unless the procedure is necessary to protect a young person's health. The penalty for violating this law is a fine, imprisonment for up to five years, or both.71
Congress has directed the Department of Health and Human Services to undertake several FGM-related interventions. These include compiling data on the extent of FGM in the United States, engaging in education and outreach activities to relevant communities, and developing recommendations for medical and osteopathic students on FGM and its complications.72
The U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service must provide information on the harmful effects of FGM as well as on the legal consequences of FGM under criminal or child protection statutes to all aliens issued U.S. visas. 73
Congress enacted legislation requiring U.S. executive directors of international financial institutions to actively oppose non-humanitarian loans to countries that have not taken measures to prevent FGM.74
Since 1994, seven states (California, Delaware, Minnesota, North Dakota, Rhode Island, Tennessee, and Wisconsin) passed legislation against the practice of FGM. Legislation is pending in Colorado, New Jersey, New York, and Oregon.75
References

World Health Organization. (1995). "Female Genital Mutilation: Report of a WHO Technical Working Group". Geneva: World Health Organization; pp. 9.
Toubia, N. (1993). Female Genital Mutilation: A Call for Global Action. New York: Women, Ink; pp. 9.
Ibid., pp. 5.
Demographic and Health Survey - Egypt. (1995). Calverton, MD: Macro International Inc. pp.175.
Hosken, F. (1993). The Hosken Report: Genital and Sexual Mutilation of Females, fourth edition. Lexington, MA: Women's International Network; pp. 35.
Ibid.
Toubia, N. (1993). Female Genital Mutilation: A Call for Global Action. New York: Women, Ink; pp. 42.
Demographic and Health Survey - Egypt. (1995). Calverton, MD: Macro International Inc. pp. 171.
Demographic and Health Survey - Eritrea. (1995). Calverton, MD: Macro International Inc. pp. 166.
Demographic and Health Survey - Mali. (1995). Calverton, MD: Macro International Inc. pp. 186.
Demographic and Health Survey - Sudan. (1989-1990). Calverton, MD: Macro International Inc. pp. 118.
Demographic and Health Survey - Central African Republic. (1995). Calverton, MD: Macro International Inc. pp. 201.
Toubia, N. (1993). Female Genital Mutilation: A Call for Global Action. New York: Women, Ink; pp. 44.
Ibid., pp. 21.
Ibid., pp. 11.
Hosken, F. (1993). The Hosken Report: Genital and Sexual Mutilation of Females, fourth edition. Lexington, MA: Women's International Network; pp. 3.
1Ibid., pp. 37.
Women's Policy, Inc. (July 12, 1996). "Female Genital Mutilation". Women's Health Equity Act of 1996: Legislative Summary and Overview. Women's Policy, Inc. pp. 48.
"Female Genital Cutting: Findings from the Demographic and Health Surveys Program". (1997). Calverton, MD: Macto International Inc. pp. 39.
Ibid.
Koso-Thomas, O. (1987). The Circumcision of Women: A Strategy for Eradication. London: Dotesios Ltd.; pp. 29.
Koso-Thomas, O. (1987). The Circumcision of Women: A Strategy for Eradication. London: Dotesios Ltd.; pp. 54.
23Maendeleo Ya Wanawake Organization and the Program for Appropriate Technology in Health. (1993). "Quantitative Research Report on Female Circumcision in Four Districts in Kenya". Nairobi: Maendeleo Ya Wanawake Organization.
Hosken, F. (1993). The Hosken Report: Genital and Sexual Mutilation of Females, fourth edition. Lexington, MA: Women's International Network. pp. 253.
Institute for Development Training. (1986). "Health Effects of Female Circumcision: A Training Course in Women's Health". Chapel Hill, NC: Institute for Development Training; pp. 15.
Rushwan, H. (1996). "Female Genital Mutilation: Overview and Framework for the Integration of Activities into UNFPA Three Core Program Areas". Unpublished working paper for UNFPA technical consultation on female genital mutilation; pp.9.
Ministry of Health - Somalia. (1985). Fertility and Family Planning in Urban Somalia 1983. Somalia: Westinghouse Public Applied Systems; pp. 95.
Rushwan, H. (1996). "Female Genital Mutilation: Overview and Framework for the Integration of Activities into UNFPA Three Core Program Areas". Unpublished working paper for UNFPA technical consultation on female genital mutilation; pp. 10.
World Health Organization. (1993). "Female Genital Mutilation: World Health Assembly Calls for Elimination of Harmful Traditional Practices". Press Release. Geneva: World Health Organization; pp.1.Koso-Thomas, O. (1987). The Circumcision of Women: A Strategy for Eradication. London: Dotesios Ltd.; pp. 27.
Warsame, Mohamed. (1989). "Medical and Social Aspects of Female Circumcision in Somalia," in Female Circumcision: Strategies To Bring About Change by the Italian Association for Women in Development and the Somali Women's Democratic Organization. Rome: The Italian Association for Women in Development; pp. 97.
World Health Organization. (1986). "A Traditional Practice that Threatens Health: Female Circumcision". WHO Chronicle. Vol. 40 (1): pp. 31-36
Koso-Thomas, O. (1987). The Circumcision of Women: A Strategy for Eradication. London: Dotesios Ltd.; pp. 27-28.
Toubia, N. (1993). Female Genital Mutilation: A Call for Global Action. New York: Women, Ink; pp. 19.
Ibid., pp. 13.
Koso-Thomas, O. (1987). The Circumcision of Women: A Strategy for Eradication. London: Dotesios Ltd.; pp. 29.
Hosken, F. (1993). The Hosken Report: Genital and Sexual Mutilation of Females, fourth edition. Lexington, MA: Women's International Network; pp. 48.
Toubia, N. (1993). Female Genital Mutilation: A Call for Global Action. New York: Women, Ink.; pp. 17.
Rushwan, H. (1996). "Female Genital Mutilation: Overview and Framework for the Integration of Activities into UNFPA Three Core Program Areas". Unpublished working paper for UNFPA technical consultation on female genital mutilation; pp. 10.
Dareer, A. (1981). "An Epidemiological Study of Female Circumcision in the Sudan". Khartoum, Sudan: University of Khartoum; pp. 81.
Hosken, F. (1993). The Hosken Report: Genital and Sexual Mutilation of Females, fourth edition. Lexington, MA: Women's International Network; pp. 39-40.
Koso-Thomas, O. (1987). The Circumcision of Women: A Strategy for Eradication. London: Dotesios Ltd.; pp. 57.
Program for Appropriate Technology in Health and Seventh Day Adventist-Rural Health Services. (1996). "Qualitative Research Report on Health Workers' Knowledge and Attitudes About Female Circumcision in Nyamira District, Kenya". Nairobi: PATH; pp. 8.
Demographic and Health Survey - Egypt. (1995). Calverton, MD: Macro International Inc. pp. 182.
Kheir, H.M., Kumar, S. and Cross, A. "Female Circumcision: Attitudes and Practices in Sudan". pp. 7.
Demographic and Health Survey, Sudan. (1989/90). Calverton, MD: Macro International Inc. pp. 121.
Demographic and Health Survey – Egypt. (1995). Calverton, MD: Macro International Inc. pp. 173.
Toubia, N. (1993). Female Genital Mutilation: A Call for Global Action. New York: Women, Ink; pp. 21.
Demographic and Health Survey - Egypt. (1995). Calverton, MD: Macro International Inc. pp. 173.
Maendeleo Ya Wanawake Organization and the Program for Appropriate Technology in Health. (1991). "Qualitative Research Report on Female Circumcision in Four Districts in Kenya". Nairobi: Maendeleo Ya Wanawake Organization; pp. 10.
Demographic and Health Survey - Sudan. (1989-1990). Calverton, MD: Macro International Inc. pp. 124.
"Female Genital Cutting: Findings from the Demographic and Health Surveys Program". (1997). Calverton, MD: Macto International Inc. pp. 9.
Ibid., pp. 37.
Hosken, F. (1993). The Hosken Report: Genital and Sexual Mutilation of Females, fourth edition. Lexington, MA: Women's International Network; pp. 3.
Demographic and Health Survey - Egypt. (1995). Calverton, MD: Macro International Inc. pp. 176.
Maendeleo Ya Wanawake Organization and the Program for Appropriate Technology in Health. (1991). "Qualitative Research Report on Female Circumcision in Four Districts in Kenya". Nairobi: Maendeleo Ya Wanawake Organization; pp. 18.
Kheir, H.M., Kumar, S. and Cross, A. Female Circumcision: Attitudes and Practices in Sudan. pp. 5.
Maendeleo Ya Wanawake Organization and the Program for Appropriate Technology in Health. (1991). "Qualitative Research Report on Female Circumcision in Four Districts in Kenya". Nairobi: Maendeleo Ya Wanawake Organization; pp. 18.
Kheir, H.M., Kumar, S. and Cross, A. "Female Circumcision: Attitudes and Practices in Sudan". pp. 15.
Ibid., pp. 7.
"Female Genital Cutting: Findings from the Demographic and Health Surveys Program". (1997). Calverton, MD: Macto International Inc. pp. 7.
Koso-Thomas, O. (1987). The Circumcision of Women: A Strategy for Eradication. London: Dotesios Ltd.; pp. 57.
Njeru, E. and the Program for Appropriate Technology in Health. (1996). "Female Circumcision in Nyeri, Embu and Machakos Districts of Kenya: Report on Key Informant Interviews". Nairobi: Program for Appropriate Technology in Health; pp. 42-43.
Demographic and Health Survey - Egypt. (1995). Calverton, MD: Macro International Inc. pp. 172.
Kiragu, K. (1995). "Female Genital Mutilation: A Reproductive Health Concern". Population Reports Supplement. Baltimore, MD: John Hopkins Population Information Program; pp. 3.
"Female Genital Cutting: Findings from the Demographic and Health Surveys Program". (1997). Calverton, MD: Macto International Inc. pp. 9.
Ministry of Foreign Affairs - Danida. (1995). "Report from the Seminar on Female Genital Mutilation". Copenhagen: Axel Nielsen & Son; pp. 17.
Toubia, N. (1993). Female Genital Mutilation: A Call for Global Action. New York: Women, Ink; pp. 44.
Kiragu, K. (1995). "Female Genital Mutilation: A Reproductive Health Concern". Population Reports Supplement. Baltimore, MD: John Hopkins Population Information Program; pp. 4.
Toubia, N. (1993). Female Genital Mutilation: A Call for Global Action. New York: Women, Ink; pp. 44.
Congressional Record -House. (September 28, 1996). H11829 / SEC. 645. Criminalization of Female Genital Mutilation.
Center for Reproductive Law and Policy. (1997). "Legislation on Female Genital Mutilation in the United States". New York, NY: In Focus. pp. 5.
Ibid.
Ibid.
Center for Reproductive Law and Policy. (1997). "Legislation on Female Genital Mutilation in the United States". New York, NY: In Focus. pp. 4-7.

by Kevin Thu Dec 15, 2005 01:56

Shane,

Its easy to copy and paste a chunk of text, but you must realise, this will make very little impression on most of the people on this Island. Ever hear of the first safe country, in Pamela's case - it wasn't Ireland. She could have claimed asylum in any number of safe countries, instead she selected Ireland. People who think Ireland is still a soft touch for fairy tales should now think again. Pamela was not turned down for no reason.

by SH Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:46

Kevin, once again you try to insult our intelligence.
Do you think Benin and Toga are safe countries?

And you force me to repeat myself once again because you are clearly to idoitic to remember. The citizenship referendum was about our citizenship, not our asylum laws. We have never had a vote on our asylum laws, and yet you continually try to infer that we did. You wouldn't even convince a kid with your arguments.

by Andy Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:56 Sligo city.

You have just said that there was never a vote on our asylum laws. So you are admitting that our asylum laws have never been ammended. But doesn't that go to say that they are old fashioned?

by SH Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:12

Go do some research Andy as you are clearly wrong . Also dont ever try to put words in my mouth. I said there has never been a referendum on our asylum laws, not that they had never been amended. The Immigration Act 2004 was the most recent immigration act. I posted a link earlier showing that the act has been condemned for not respecting Internationally recognized human rights.

by Andy Thu Dec 15, 2005 14:32 Sligo city

I'm NOT putting words in your mouth at all. All's I am stating is that you have admitted that our asylum laws have never been ammended. Also, who has the act been condemned by? You?!

by SH Thu Dec 15, 2005 14:45

I never said that. I told you in the last post I never said that and here you are repeating the same false allegation. As I also said I posted links on this thread. Go read them, the Act was condemned by Amesty International amongst others.

by shanesligo Thu Dec 15, 2005 15:54 shanesligo at vodafone dot ie

This is known as the "Dublin Convention" and has been condemned as totally unfair as it does not for example, take into account of people with language difficulties. Pamela is an native english speaker so it makes perfect sense to go to an english speaking country. Ireland was the first english speaking country in which she landed.
Don't forget the whole point of this topic is the safety of her two young girls, and not stupid rules and regulations in which you or I had absolutely no say.

by friend Sun Dec 18, 2005 00:09

I think that Pamela should be let stay in Ireland not only on the basis of her horrific story but now (and this is reality) that practicaly the whole community in which she has resided this past year are in support of her staying. I know this because i live and work here. I have not met one person yet who is against her staying, people are disgusted that given the facts (of which there are plenty!) she is still in danger of deportation. We the residents of the community in our sound judgment have decided that she be let stay, should we not have some say in the decision?
I have met many people seeking asylum here. Some make little or more effort than others and it is hard to see the real picture with each case. Pamela's case is genuine, It matters to us, an irish community that Pamela and her family be free to live here in Ireland.

by Me Mon Dec 19, 2005 17:21

Irish Independent 19/12/05

Record crackdown by authorities on 'asylum shoppers'

Tom Brady

Security Editor

THE number of 'asylum shoppers' deported from here has more than trebled in the past year.

A record 14 illegals, who have been shopping for asylum in at least two EU countries, were deported out of the county over the weekend.

This brings the number thrown out so far this year to 210, compared to only 65 for all of last year.

The figures, obtained by the Irish Independent last night, signal a tough crackdown by immigration authorities on those who flout the 'Dublin 2' rules which require asylum seekers to be dealt with in whatever EU country they first land.

Bogus

All EU member states are now using fingerprint data stored on a common computer system, Eurodac, to help combat the asylum shoppers, many of whom have applied in several countries.

Under the Dublin 2 regulations, cases are fast-tracked and are not clogged up in the courts. Bogus applicants are immediately deported and any appeals they lodge are heard in their absence and they can then return if they are successful.

The bulk of the shoppers arriving here have already applied for asylum in the United Kingdom while others have travelled to this country from the Netherlands, France, Belgium or Germany.

The authorities here are now operating an air and sea service for deportation and the 14 thrown out at the weekend were understood to have been sent back to the UK by ferry.

The group included an Iranian man, Houshang Hossain Zade (27), who earlier this month had stitched his lips together in a protest after his application had been turned down. His asylum application has already been processed by the British authorities who rejected it as bogus. He arrived here two months ago and had been living in a hostel in Tramore, Co Waterford.

Immigration officials said last night that the crackdown on shoppers was set to continue next year, in accordance with the EU regulations which were tightened up in September 2003 after a review of the initial Dublin Convention laws.

by Ruairi Mon Dec 19, 2005 17:32

Your title says 'more bogus asylum seekers'...
are you suggesting that Pamela is 'bogus'? Do you believe the Irish Asylum system is fair, accurate, efficient? It's a mess. A complete joke. The Irish Independent is notorious for spouting this kind of crap. Why post it on here? It's interesting the story is by their 'security' editor, as if this is a major security issue. I could name 5 bigger 'security issues' including a Minister for Justice who ignores due process. The use of language in the article is heavily slanted towards a hostile attitude, using and promoting words and phrases like 'asylum shopping' and 'thrown out'...... Time for an informed and intelligent debate.

by shanesligo Mon Dec 19, 2005 17:44 shanesligo at vodafone dot ie

What evidence did the Indo give to back up its claim? Not a shred as far as I can see in their report. Oh, sorry! I forgot, Minister Herod McDowell now determines your guilty until proven innocent!!!
All we know that is true is that 19 nigerians were thrown out of this country for no good reason last Thursday week.
They could be paying for our pensions in years to come if they were let stay. We badly need more people to live and work here.
Who knows that one or more of them might be class footballers that may give Ireland's soccer team a bit of a lift or maybe even lift a eurovision prize for Ireland

by Richard Mulligan - Human Wellness Wed Dec 21, 2005 13:56 richard at shopwizard dot tv Sligo, Ireland 0877776463

Once We Were Poverty and it was not very long ago. Our grandparents knew what starvation was all about. Child Labour was commonplace. Rip-Off Ireland meant dying in the depths of winter not being over charged for a mercededes.

Even the poorest of us now (and I know because my annual salary is below minimum wage) are only poor in our mental sense of reality.

OUR GOVERNMENTS AND CORPORATIONS HAVE THE BILLIONS
WE HAVE THE MANPOWER AND THE NESSECARY SKILLS.

It is time to end humanities destructive war for power and resources.

OUR GENERATION IS THE GENERATION THAT WILL SAVE THE CHILDREN

by Irish Woman Mon Dec 26, 2005 20:43

I haven't read all the comments posted but I will say to those of you who debate the question of allowing those under threat of FGM to stay in Ireland - before you think, let alone write anymore - please take time to read the following. It will give you something of an idea of what this particular case (and too many more) is about

http://www.icl-fi.org/english/womandrev/oldsite/FGM.HTM

Now that you've read it - and I truely hope you have - are you ready to put a sister, mother, aunt, girlfriend, any female aquaintance through that????????????????????

Think twice before you think . .

Take Care.......

by Angry Dubliner Sat Dec 31, 2005 17:35 prideofdublin2 at hotmail dot com

What a dreadful, backward, inward looking dive we still live in. I cannot comprehend some of the idiotic comments made by some of the intellectual lightweights below. The cheek of any Irish person to talk about deporting such a person when we sent millons abroad for 150 years because the country could not support them. Now we have a few quid we have turned into hypocrites of the highest order. Right now the government that our thug of a minister for justice represents is in discussions to allow no less than 50,000 Irish people working illegally in the States to be naturalised and here we are throwing a woman out of the country, sending her back to where one of her daughters has already been murdered so that her other two might suffer the same fate. Ireland you should be ashamed of yourselves and some of the writers of comments on this page belong in a barn with the other animals. shame on you.

by Kevin Sat Dec 31, 2005 20:29

Ireland did not send 50, 000 asylum seekers to America, these people did not drain America's coffers; they were not a burden on the American taxpayer.

That is a complete contrast with the situation in Ireland. Do you really think we would be deporting this woman if her story was really genuine?? Can she prove it - the answer is she can't, therefore she is no different to Murphy and all the other people we have deported. Someday you might realize, you are in a tiny minority with your ultra liberal views.

by Angry Dubliner Sun Jan 01, 2006 04:35

So she's a drain on resources? Maybe we should deport the sick, the old, the disabled. After all, they drain our resources too. Nice to see Naziism didn't die with Hitler. the likes of you should remain in the farmyard with all the other animals who have yet to acquire the ability to think rationally. Do you really think the woman would go into hiding and leave her kids to be cared for by someone else if all she was afraid of was a clip on the ear when she was returned. McDowell is a thug whose right wing views do not represent the majority in this country. we had about 4000 asylum seekers this year, a fraction of what other European countries have AND CATER FOR. Again I say that money has become our God and Ireland is the poorer for it. And don't bother calling me a liberal. Labels are for those who can't think of anything intelligent to say.

by Kevin Sun Jan 01, 2006 04:57

Angry Dubliner,

1. Ever hear of the Dublin Convention and other protocol? That woman (and many others I might add) was supposed to have claimed asylum in the 1st safe destination - she didn't. Her case has been found to be without substance - that is why she has been served with a deportation order.

You say McDowell has little support, what about the resounding yes in the citizenship referendum. The minister is doing an excellent job.

by RTÉ Exit Poll Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:25

This is the RTE exit poll on Referendum day...

Vox Populi

by Just the Evidence Sun Jan 08, 2006 13:27

This is clearly a highly sensitive case with many aspects to consider. However, so far there has been little in this discussion other than reactionary mud-slinging from either side. The fact is none of us are in a position to be able to pass judgement on this case, as none of us are in full possession of the facts.

I do not intend to pass any personal comments or viewpoints, I am merely playing devil's advocate.

Here are just a few things you might like to take into consideration:

On 2nd December 2005 the UK government designated Nigeria as a 'NSA' country. This stands for Non-Suspensive Appeal. All asylum applicants are entitled by law to appeal against a refusal to grant asylum whilst still being present in the country they have claimed. What 'NSA' does is deny them this in-country right of appeal, and instead grants them the right to appeal AFTER they have been removed from the UK to their own country. To be on the 'NSA' list your country has to be deemed to be 'safe'. Countries on this list include all the eastern European countries and India, Brazil, Ecuador and others.

Despite this, it is interesting to note that at present the UK government has designated that only Nigerian males can be considered under these new laws - women and children cannot. Therefore Nigerian woman cannot be immediately removed until their case has been heard and fully resolved by a court of law in the UK.

I'm not drawing any conclusions here, just giving you the facts.

The question of whether or not the FGM has or would take place is not the issue. In all asylum applications the applicant by law should be given the benefit of the doubt, given that the majority of all applicants have no evidence other than their word. If their account is ‘credible’ and can be considered to be ‘reasonable’, the person should be given the benefit of the doubt. The test of whether to grant or refuse asylum rests on the question of whether or not the applicant could, if returned, seek protection from the authorities in their own country against the problems they claim to have encountered.

To that end, you can note from sources such as the US Department of State Report on Human Rights Practices for Nigeria (published February 2005) (http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41620.htm)

That “The Federal [Nigerian] Government publicly opposed FGM; however, it took no legal action to curb the practice. There were no federal laws banning FGM. Because of the considerable problems that anti-FGM groups faced at the federal level, most refocused their energies to combat the practice at the state and LGA levels. Bayelsa, Edo, Ogun, Cross River, Osun, and Rivers States have banned FGM. However, once a state legislature criminalized FGM, NGOs found that they had to convince the LGA authorities that state laws were applicable in their districts. The Ministry of Health, women's groups, and many NGOs sponsored public awareness projects to educate communities about the health hazards of FGM. They worked to eradicate the practice; however, they had limited contact with health care workers on the medical effects of FGM.”

If, however, the applicant was unable to seek protection from the authorities, the question of whether or not the applicant could relocate within Nigeria can also be considered. In this particular case it is noted from the applicant’s own account that those who are persecuting her are her relatives and therefore not ‘state-agents.’ Would these people have the means and resources to be able to find someone in another part of the country?

Nigeria has the largest population in Africa. In 2004, the American University of Nigeria (http://www.abti-american.edu.ng/about/facts.htm) estimated the population of Nigeria to be around 137 million. Nigeria covers an area of 500,000 square miles.

According to the US Department of State report, “The Constitution provides for these rights [freedom of movement], and the Government generally respected them; however, police occasionally restricted freedom of movement by enforcing curfews in areas with ethno-religious violence.
Law enforcement agencies used roadblocks and checkpoints to search for criminals and to prevent persons travelling from areas of conflict to other parts of the country where their presence might instigate retaliatory violence. There were no reports that government officials restricted mass movements of individuals fleeing ethnic unrest. Security and law enforcement officials continued to use excessive force at checkpoints and roadblocks and engage in extortion and violence.

There was no law that required women to obtain permission from a male relative to obtain a passport.”

Again I’m not drawing any conclusions here, just giving you the facts. Do you believe that applicant could or could not relocate within Nigeria for safety if she were to return?

These facts are just the tip of the iceberg, however, and those who decide asylum applications have access to much more detailed and up-to-date information. Could you decide asylum applications based on these facts and these rules?

I am determined not to give any personal viewpoints in this ‘comment’, as that is not the purpose of this exercise. I merely want to emphasise that this is a complex process which we know little or nothing about and I wanted to shed light on a few issues which have to be considered. It is not a case of ‘let them all in’, neither is it a case of ‘Ireland for the Irish’ – these viewpoints are emotive by-products of an issue which, at its core, highlights a need for impartial, carefully considered and fair decisions backed up by independent tangible evidence.

What it comes down to is whether or not you have trust in the Irish Immigration system to be able to do this, using some of the evidence given above.

You decide.

by shanesligo Fri Jan 13, 2006 22:54 shanesligo at vodafone dot ie

A very interesting point.
Why does the Irish decision making process only pick the parts of the British asylum system that go against asylum seekers?

Why are Nigerian women and children not afforded the same treatment here as they are in England?

Can the anonymous decision making people come out of hiding and reveal themselves?

If they are so sure of their decisions that they won't change them, come on out and tell us, THE PEOPLE, WHY???
REMEMBER!
TWO YOUNG INNOCENT GIRLS AND THEIR MOTHER'S LIVES ARE IN THE BALANCE OF THE SCALES OF JUSTICE!
WHERE'S THE JUSTICE?
LETS GO FOR LIFE!

by justanotherracistifyoulistentosomepeople Sat Jan 14, 2006 05:51

I refer Shanesligo to the comments of the UNHCR rep in Ireland as quoted in the I.T earlier this week who said we had one of the best asylum systems in europe.

However there is an issue that needs to be addressed regarding the reality on Nigerian emigration. The following link is a paper by a Nigerian Doctoral student at Trinity



http://www.africamigration.com/archive_01/j_komolafe_searching.htm

The oft quoted studies onFGM refer to predominantly one section(extreme north) of the country. It is justifiable to ask the question, is no part of Nigeria safe? Is Egypt safe? Is Morocco safe.Spain? France? U.K.....because it is necessary to pass through some safe country to reach Ireland.

Why would a person in imminent danger choose to bypass a number of safe alternatives both closer and more accessibile?Time for a little truth here.

by julio rebelo Sun Jan 15, 2006 20:35 juliorebelo at iol dot pt

this is outrageous !!
we are on the 21st century !
If there is justice in this world. then prove it now

by Observer Mon Jan 16, 2006 21:54

"if there is justice in this world. then prove it now".

The justice we have permits an asylum seeker who goes through the process to be either (i) given refugee status or (ii) to be sent back to their country.
If an asylum seeker does not meet the terms, then they are deported. But we can't be saying yes to every asylum seeker because inevitabely, our system would then be abused and its only logical to have immigration rules.

by Observer Tue Jan 17, 2006 00:49

"It's surely a very poor system that chases a Nigerian mother who deserves asylum around the country"

If this woman had presented herself for an appeal the legal way, she would have no reason to run away and go into hiding. Instead she chose to go into hiding and show her disregard for irish law by refusing to leave when she had already gone through the due process and had been proven otherwise not to meet the criteria for asylum.

by SH Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:10

The asylum system is an absolute sham. Pamela deserves asylum and her children deserve our protection. Her case more than adequately meets the asylum criteria. The reason she was turned down is because our system is not human rights based. It is based on deporting as many people as possible. The appeals process is even more farcial. Anyone who watched the Prime Time last year will have noticed how unfair the appeals system is, with one of the members saying "I haven't let one of them in, not one". The people deciding on the cases have very little local knowledge of where the applicants come from. In one case published by the village last year an applicant was turned down on the basis that the interviewer didn't believe he was where he was from because he gave the local name of his language and not the english version. The interviewer had not an iota. Those asylum seekers who go public have a far better chance of getting status than those who don't. The reason for this is that the Dept. of Justice don't like being exposed for being completely unfair, clueless and utterly farcical.

by Setanta Tue Jan 17, 2006 13:39

well, she speaks english doesn't she now.

Not a lower class trait. She had the money to and the means to come here.

She wants a better life. We can all understand that, we sent 4 million in search of a better life. And how did they world welcome us? No Dogs No Blacks No Irish.

Personally I refuse to believe that any woman wo has the means to travel from Nigeria to Ireland and speaks English is at the mercy of her Grandmothers family.
We must respeect due process. She has had a fair hearing, and her application was denied. Now she has left her family in care. If she misses them so much she can be re-united with them anytime.

We cannot have uncontrolled immigration. It is as unfair to the general population as it is to the genuine asylum seekers who genuinely need help and have the system clogged by those that merely wanted a better economic life.

by SH Tue Jan 17, 2006 15:05

Your knowledge of Nigeria is very basic. Speaking English doesn't necessarily mean you are not poor. However women are treated as second class citizens in Nigeria and it would be completely true to say that Pamela's in laws could dominate her life in Nigeria. It is enshrined in Nigerian law that a man can beat his wife, unless he permanently prevents her from working. It is entirley true to say that at least 50% of women in Nigeria have had FGM performed on them. It is entirely untrue to say she has had a fair hearing, it is quite clear in this case that Pamela's case is deserving of refugee status. She provided the necessary proof from Nigeria and it was still refused, it was refused because the asylum system does not care about human rights, its focus is to deport as many people as possible.

by G Byrne Tue Jan 17, 2006 15:17

She can speak english therefore can't be poor or in danger? Are you for real? or merely completely ignorant?
For a start many refugees with genuine cases come from areas where english is taught in schools, or come from classes with slightly better education, therefore more politcal involvement therefore more directly in danger from despotic regimes.

Apart from that FGM is performed on women regardless of their caste or class, if a woman is unfortunate enough to live in a region where it is imposed. This woman had a prima facie case for asylum and has been shamefully treated. There are plenty of crminals and terrorist elements seeking refuge in this country who could and should be deported - it seems just easier to pick on women and children who are actually in real danger in their countries of origin. I would also point out she had integrated and was popular in her community - why deport her? what possible good is served by this?Cowards.

by Stephen Moss Tue Jan 17, 2006 17:47

I suppord them staying in Ireland.

by Observer Tue Jan 17, 2006 19:27

If this woman actually had all the things that she claimed carried out, then there would be some clear evidence of that. Perhaps, she could have provided some proof of that herself. So far, there has been absolutely no evidence whatsoever, just claims. There is really nothing contributing to add to the issue of our asylum system only criticism of it and calls for it to be abolished so that every asylum seeker does not need to go through any process whatsoever.

by Still thinking.......... Tue Jan 17, 2006 19:47

SH, You are almost fanatically absorbed with labelling others "liars" when they cannot forensically back up their opinions.

Can you?

You have stated on this thread that refugees are being deported.

So, I will ask you again,

Is there even the remotest chance of you providing evidence of a refugee that has been deported from Ireland?

By evidence, I mean proof that the persecution alleged to be the cause of flight actually occured and the name of the victim.

Heresay, rumour, conjecture, bluster etc. are not substitutes for an answer to my specific question.

by SH Tue Jan 17, 2006 20:11

I call people liars when they are exposed for blatantly lying like observer repeatedly has.

You are confusing your terms. A refugee would be someone who has been granted refugee status and no refugee has been deported. Asylum seekers are the ones who have been been deported. And I will repeat again that Prime Time went over and filmed the plight of several deportee's. These people were living in Lagos and hiding in fear of their lives. That is documented proof that went out on RTE last year.

Also Kunle who was deported and brought back spoke at length about what happened once they arrived in Lagos. This has been discussed at length on other threads and you can seek more info there.

Have you any proof that they weren't persecuted? of course you don't

by Still thinking.......... Tue Jan 17, 2006 21:02

(Asylum seekers are the ones who have been been deported)

The term 'asylum seeker' is used widely by Refugees Convention signatory countries to identify people awaiting a determination on claims for refugee protection.

I would therefore suggest it is you that is confusing your terms unless you are disputing this universally accepted definition or stating that Ireland deports, to their home countries, asylum seekers without processing their claims.

Which is it?

by SH Tue Jan 17, 2006 21:08

Asylum seekers whose applications have been turned down are those who are deported. And it is the correct term to use to describe them.

by Thinking Tue Jan 17, 2006 21:17

SH

Perhaps you are referring to failed asylum seekers?

Having had their cases determined, they are no longer deemed to be seeking asylum and are subject to normal immigration laws.

It is factually incorrect to continuously refer to such individuals as "asylum seekers" or "refugees" or to suggest that Ireland deports either to their home countries.

by SH Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:00

I never called them refugee's it was you who did, and it is the second time you ahve suggested that I have called them refugee's which is untrue. The term asylum seekers still applies to them. They are failed asylum seekers if their application has been turned down. This is the correct term.

by anna - none Fri Jan 20, 2006 17:25

After reading all postings on this site,I am duly shocked by the views expressed in some of them.Facts are more important than jumping to conclusions.Indeed a little knowledge is often a dangerous thing!!This case concerns the right of an individual to live in a community where she is totally integrated,while at the same time protecting her children from a barbaric practise.Would not any mother do this for the sake of her children?
In the not so distant past many irish women were forced to have children adopted or buried in unconsecrated ground,due to social duty or religious dogma which in turn caused immense trauma for them.Surely we can empathise with Pamela,as a mother with protective maternal instinct,same the world over regardless of colour or creed?

by des Sat Jan 21, 2006 16:28

So is deportation ever ok?

by true - my own Sun Jan 22, 2006 21:22

noone would like to suffer in this world...wouldn't we? if you think carefully in this there is no so much to say.
lot of irish was suffering short time ago and they went for a better life to another country; then they improoved theyr condition and helped Ireland, so Ireland is rich now and irish are proud of theyr catholic religion...so be a good christian and help the people who suffer.
Of course Ireland is not big enough for give assylum to everybody...but we are not speaking about everybody, but about a black woman and her 2 children, in my opinion if irish want to control the inmigration ,that's right, but the way to do it is to prevent and controlling the amount of people who come to Ireland but not to say Get out! to the inmigrant who are already here...kisses to everybody.

by J.D. Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:04

The case of the Sligo based Nigerian mother of two fighting deportation was not unique, Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell stated in Riverstown on Monday.

The Minister, who officially opened the newly refurbished and extended Garda Station in the village, was greeted by some 50 protesters criticising his Department's decision to deport Pamela Izevbekhai who had lived in Sligo with her two children, Naomi (4) and Jemima (3) for almost a year.
Mrs. Izevbekhai has been granted a temporary stay on her deportation at the High Court pending a full hearing of her case on Monday next.

She has claimed she lost her first daughter, Elizabeth as a result of female genital mutilation and fears her other daughters will undergo the same procedure if they are deported.

At a media briefing, the Minister stressed he did not wish to comment on the matter as it was before the courts.

However, he stated it was by no means a unique case.

"I would say hundreds, if not approaching thousands of cases have been put on the same basis to us.

"We operate within the UNHCR guidelines on these issues and we make what are, I am quite satisfied, very reasonable decisions," the Minister said.

He added that he would not be meeting the protesters because the matter was before the High Court.

The Minister confirmed that he did examine Mrs. Izevbekhai's case before she took her case to the High Court.

"I'm not commenting further on the matter. It's a matter for the High Court now.
"Having put the matter before the courts I think that everybody, including myself, should await the decision of the High Court," he said.

He added that he felt Mrs. Izevbekhai's case had been dealt with expeditiously and properly by his Department as far as he was concerned.

Mrs. Izevbekhai, who had been in hiding for a number of weeks, was arrested by Gardai on Thursday afternoon in Sligo and is currently being kept at Mountjoy Womens' Prison. Protests were held by her supporters at the Garda Station that evening and outside the Courthouse on Friday.

Councillors Declan Bree and Sean MacManus met the Minister in Riverstown and conveyed their concerns relating to the proposed deportation of Mrs. Izevbekhai and her children.

The councillors, who are both supporters of the Let Them Stay group, waited for the Minister to complete his formal address to those attending the opening of the refurbished Garda station before approaching him on the matter.
Concern

Councillor Bree told The Sligo Champion that he and Councillor MacManus told the Minister that they were speaking on behalf of their constituents and behalf of all those who supported the Let Them Stay campaign.

"We said to the Minister that there is growing concern in Sligo that Pamela and her children will be deported to Nigeria. We highlighted the fact that Pamela's first daughter had died in Nigeria when she was forced to undergo female genital mutilation and that Pamela was seeking asylum so as to safeguard the lives of her young daughters.

"We appealed to the Minister to lift the deportation order and to sympathetically consider Pamela's application for leave to remain in Ireland on humanitarian grounds," said Clr. Bree.

Meanwhile, Deputy Marian Harkin who visited Mrs. Izevbekhai in prison, said the socialist credentials of Taoiseach Bertie Ahern had to be called into question when the policy of his Government resulted in the deportation of a family into a proven situation of personal danger.

"What kind of Taoiseach could countenance the return of a family into a situation where their lives will be endangered as evidenced by the death of Pamela’s 19 month old baby following an enforced genital mutilation procedure.

"It is not just the judgement of the Minister for Justice that is in question here but the policy of a Government led by a Taoiseach who purports to have the kind of socialist principles which are completely at odds with this attempt to forcibly deport a family into a life threatening situation", she said.

Sligo Rape Crisis Centre has also lent its support to calls for Mrs. Izevbekhai to be allowed remain in Ireland.

"Fleeing sexually violent acts such as female genital mutilation or rape must be seen as legitimate reasons for granting asylum.

"People have been traumatised enough.
They need our support not imprisonment and deportation to face the same horror. The fact that Pamela is now in prison is a disgrace.
"We call on the Department of Justice and the Minister in particular to do the right thing and grant asylum to Pamela and her two children," said a spokesperson.

By Paul Deering Sligo Champion & http://www.unison.ie/

by J.D. Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:13

SLIGO'S two local authorities have agreed to call on the Minister for Justice to consider granting asylum to the Nigerian mother who was living in the town and who is now facing deportation.

The woman and her two children have resided in Sligo for the past year, having fled Nigeria to seek asylum because of the fear that the children would be forced to undergo female circumcision, a ritual which claimed the life of her first daughter, Elizabeth, when she was just a year and a half old.

The motions were passed at a meeting on Monday of Sligo County Council and on Monday night at the budget meeting of Sligo Borough Council.

On the same day, while visiting Riverstown to perform the official opening of the newly-renovated Garda Station in the village, Minister McDowell declined to meet a delegation about the Nigerian woman's case.
Clr. Bree said there was growing concern in the community regarding the proposed deportation of Pamela Enitan Izevbekhai, and her two children, Naomi, age 5, and Jemina, age 3.

"This mother came to Ireland and to Sligo seeking refuge and safety for her children and the people of this community, in keeping with tradition, welcomed her," Clr. Bree said.

However, he pointed out that following her detention last Thursday on foot of a deportation order, there was now a growing fear that Pamela and children would be deported to Nigeria.

"Clearly, this is unacceptable and I believe that this council representing the people of the community should make its voice heard in supporting Pamela and her children," Clr. Bree said.

He proposed that the borough call on the Minister for Justice to sympathetically consider granting asylum to Pamela and her children on humanitarian grounds. Clr. Sean MacManus seconded.

At the meeting of Sligo County Council, Clr. Bree's motion was seconded by Clr. Veronica Cawley.

Clr. MacManus thought it was a regrettable situation for Pamela and her two children. He said she was separated from her children for a period of time because she had to go into hiding because the minister was executing his power to deport her.

Clr. MacManus said that he and Clr. Bree had a very brief opportunity in Riverstown to talk to the Minister for Justice about the case.

"And we made it very clear to the minister the views of the people of this county about deporting this woman," Clr. MacManus said.

Clr. Jimmy McGarry said it was a scandal and it was continuing to be a scandal, and he thought it was totally unacceptable.

"Even today in our own county the minister wouldn't even meet a delegation," he said.
He said he understood the minister's case about the matter being sub judice but Clr. McGarry thought Mr. McDowell could have given a delegation "a few minutes of his time."
"I think there is a good case for this mother to be left in Ireland and united with her children," Clr. McGarry said.

Clr. Cawley thought the situation brought home "how lucky we are in this country."
Referring to female circumcision, she thought it had to be recognised that what happened was a form of torture.
"Our government should be stronger in recognising that this is barbaric. If you were told a person was to be beheaded, the person would not be sent home and I think this is a similar matter," she said.

Clr. Jude Devins hoped the minister would look kindly on the situation.
"I think the minister should have met the people and I would ask the Fianna Fail members of this government to take this to Minister McDowell and urge him to resolve it," he said.

The Mayor, Clr. Rosaleen O'Grady, said she had met Pamela Enitan Izevbekhai and was very impressed by her.

"I would appeal to the Fianna Fail people in government to alleviate this problem and let her continue with her life with her children," the Mayor said.`

By Harry Keaney
Sligo Champion & http://www.unison.ie/

by Heather Sat Jan 28, 2006 00:09

I think it is disgusting that this kind of barbaric act still occurs. The world needs to stand together and demand that female genital mutilation is stopped. Obviously, the people who insist on this practice know nothing about the female body. The family that is so concerned with the girls finding husbands should realize that sexual relations after this kind of operation are not enjoyable for the women thus not making it too enjoyable for the men.

by yomi ogunyemi Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:28 ibcparents at yahoo dot ie hatch hall, lower hatch street, dublin 2

I write on behalf of all parents of Children Born here in Ireland, who could not apply for residency under the IBC/05 revised scheme until well after the deadline and therefore have had our applications rejected.

Our children have settled down very well into Irish Society and in most of the cases our spouses have been granted residency. It is for this reason that we call on the justice Minister to please give us the opportunity to bring up these children here in Ireland, and not in a country where there is unrelieved poverty and misery, where there is religious and ethnic animosity, not in a country where insecurity is endemic but Instead in a country like Ireland, where there is respect for human dignity and where the legal and policing systems conform to international Human rights standards.

We will not be saying anything new by stressing the fact that in Nigeria, human rights standards are weak and corrupt. The President does not obey the decisions of the courts and he has openly endorsed violence as a means of governance. With the support of the President, the police have flagrantly set themselves above and against the judiciary; politicians in Nigeria use the Police to enforce private political vendettas. The president has mangled the constitution and turned its polluted pulp into a weapon of offence against the rights and legitimate expectations of the people.

This appeal is coming from law abiding citizens who are ready and able to contribute towards filing the shortages in Ireland’s labor market. We have parental obligations to our children; it is this obligation that necessitates our presence in the state. Our wives cannot work because of the cost of child care that is why this appeal has become necessary. What we want is to be able to work and cater for the needs of our wives and children without having to rely on welfare handouts from the state.

Our children are Irish, except of course for the colours of their skin and the fact that they were born to non nationals but should that stop them from having the same rights as other Irish children?

Our Children, like all other Irish Children should have the right to live in the safety of their own country with the protection of their Parents. The welfare of the children will be best served if they have both parents looking after them together here in Ireland.

Mr Michael McDowell should please be humane and grant us residency so that we can fulfill our parental obligations to these children as well as be able to bring our training and skills to bear in our bid to contribute in our own little way to Irish society.

by info Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:42

Part of the reason for the difficulties experienced by the Yoruba tribe is their absolute refusal to participate in parliamentary democracy and their insistence on adhering to ancient tribal customs.

Furthermore the Yoruba attempt to continue this culture in the "diaspora".

by Benbulben Bill - Non Afilliated Tue Jan 31, 2006 01:05

The law exists to provide a framework from which we can reasonably deal with anticipated circumstance. It can never be absoloute. We must always give consideration to individual circumstance.

I believe Pamela's personal story as generaly told in the press to be true and that she and her two children should be allowed asylum in this country.

I am impressed by the compassion shown by of those who support Pamela's case and the quality of their argument.

I feel more threatned by an emerging selfish society, with little soul or concern for others, than a mother and two small girls.

I believe that Pamela and her children will be granted Asylum and the Courts will find in her favour beyond the personal opinion of our present Minister for Justice.

Economic rationale must never be given prefrence over the safety and well bieng of others.

These moments define our advancement as a democracy when the citizens make good, by their protest, deficiencies created by those who believe that the simple enactment of statute law defines all that is good.

Bhail o Dia ar on Obhair.

by T.L Fri Feb 17, 2006 17:03

Its nice to have people saying let them stay and other friendly things like that but where do we draw the line?

by Lady Caroline - Independent Sun Mar 19, 2006 23:03

One of the claims especially from Nigerian asylum seekers is the expressed fear of their age-old cultural practice of Female Genital Mutilation. In fact RAR’s own publicity draws heavily upon this particularly issue as a justification for allowing people to remain here after their claims for political asylum have otherwise been legally exhausted.
Surely it would seem far more logical and indeed justifiable for RAR and possibly the settled Nigerian community here to even occasionally protest the issue of FGM outside the Nigerian Embassy in Dublin. Alternatively what is the point of RAR simply this issue to alone demonise our Irish authorities, on the odd occasions when deportations are mooted?
Quite obviously the responsibility for the continued practice of FGM in Nigeria lies fairly and squarely with the Nigerian people and their elected representatives. The situation there will most certainly never be improved by RAR using the issue with which to demonise either Mc Dowell or the Irish authorities in the execution of the laws of this country.
I am unaware of any single occasion when RAR or the Nigerian community settled here, have ever campaigned or brought their apparent concerns about FGM to the either the Nigerian Embassy or indeed to any other Nigerian or World Health representative bodies.
Given their stated level of concern surely it is must be high time for them to do so.

by grainne - none Wed Sep 27, 2006 13:29

why is the nigerian embassy allowed to remain in our capital city at the same time we have these poor people trying to escape the regime there
this also goes for the other countires people are coming from with claims of asylem
surely the representatives nigeria should protect it's people when they are abroad

by Duine Wed Sep 27, 2006 15:04

Ní thug leis an Éireannach fadhbanna na Nigéire a réiteach,
is futhu fhéin atá.

by zzzzzzzz Wed Sep 27, 2006 16:25

The real issue for Irish society is not that FGM is practiced in parts of Nigeria. That is a matter for Nigeria and Nigerians (And I will be the first to join RAR in its next protest march on the Nigerian embassy).

If you are in Nigeria, and don't agree with FGM, you need only move to a part of this huge country where FGM is not practiced.

The issue for Ireland is the risk that under the specious facade of 'multiculturalism' people coming here from places where this type of practice is considered acceptable will import it into Ireland.

Other European countries have already seen how 'multiculturalism' has resulted in bride-burning, honour-killings, arranged child marriages, and other 'cultural' horrors being imported. We must learn from the mistakes of others and tell immigrants coming here that 'liberal democracy' doesn't mean 'anything goes' and that if FGM etc. are their 'cultural' prerequisites they would be better off going elsewhere.

by anita Tue Oct 17, 2006 23:04

Cant they go back and live in another part of the country? Nigeria is bigger than britain. Am sure they can go to another city and live there happily.

by Gerri Tue Oct 17, 2006 23:22

...is a cultural rite, practiced to varying degrees across Nigeria, by many of the different ethnic groups.

This procedure is mostly done to small girls, sometimes infants with the consent of their parent(s).

Consent of the family and community is an integral part of the reason that this procedure continues to be inflicted upon unfortunate females in Africa.

There is evidence to suggest that females from African families have undergone FGM in Europe.

It is difficult to see how for the majority of cases, asylum in Ireland could be the only solution for those claiming to fear FGM in Nigeria.

by Aodán Wed Oct 18, 2006 17:46

If this girl is in such a state of emergency to get away from her in-laws, aren't Spain, Morocco, France and dozens of other countries closer to her than Ireland? Surely she has a neighbouring country to flee to as soon as possible.

by 3dees Sun Oct 29, 2006 17:18

i'm sorry but i am a british citizen and so do not need to take sides. but I recall when you Irish were desperate to have people from Africabecause you were lacking professionals! Now that you have used these people from Africa and they need your help you want to deport them. Who wins. I'm sorry but you guys dont have heart, would you want your girls treated like this. I will tell you Nigeria is a lovely country and dont think they all want to come over to yours cos its greener. U INVITED THEM IN!

by sane Sun Oct 29, 2006 17:36

We have invited legal immigrants from all over the globe of every race creed and colour and given them a cead mile failte..

This lady was NOT invited. She came here on her own invitation and fraudulently claimed to be fleeing persecution. She put her claims and allegations to ORAC, the RAT, and the Courts. She was given legal aid courtesy of the Irish people. Neither ORAC, the RAT or the Courts believed a word she said. She is an asylum-cheat. Asylum cheats are not welcome in Ireland, irrespective of race creed or colour..

by Hadizadogo Fri Feb 16, 2007 04:23

What does it cost thr Irish people to let this woman remain here? She can work and contribute her quota to the Irish economy. Celtic Tiger indeed!

by Hadizadogo Fri Feb 16, 2007 04:28

To be candid, I feel very sad for this woman and to let you know if a nigerian can afford to pay his flight to Ireland then obviously he or she is above average back home! Some time i wonder what people are doing here with the horrible weather.

by Sean Sun Mar 25, 2007 20:21

I am an Irish living in UK, i am really sorry for pamela and children, i think Irish people should remember their history and be nice to other people, unfortunately we have lots of heartless people. Nearly all Irish families have other members of the family living outside Ireland. I support the woman and children, let them stay in Ireland

by Emeka Ikebuasi Thu Feb 07, 2008 13:09 akbar_ng at yahoo dot com

Re: Pamela Izevbekhai and the Deportation order.

Permit me to state the facts as they are concerning Female Genital mutilation (FGM) Female Genital Cutting (FGC), these are a conscious course of practise which is deeply rooted in the adherence to cultural dictates.
FGM practise varies according to the type, there are four different types: type1 (clitoridectomy); type2 (excision); type3 (commonly practised and referred to as infibulation is the most common form of FGM in Nigeria); type4 is however not common in the southern or mid-western part of Nigeria. The commonality of the practise is that it is performed without the use of anaesthesia, and the girl’s legs are bound together from the hip to the ankle so she remains immobile for approximately 40 days or more to allow for the formation of scar tissues.

Pamela Izevbekhai, by her surname, presumably hails from Edo State (mid-west Nigeria) where the prevalence of circumcision is between 30-40 %, and type2 of the female genital mutilation is practised. Type2 involves the removal of the clitoris together with part or all of the inner vaginal lips which can consequently leave the girl haemorrhaging to death as the right to bodily self-determination cannot be asserted.
No reasonable mother would wish this for her child.
According to the U.S Department of State report on Nigeria, they found that not only songs, proverbs, dance performances and general cultural activities, but that the attitude of the men towards uncircumcised women as unmarriageable and cheap risks has seem to reinforce the practise.
The Irish Times reported, that Pamela in her affidavit alluded to the fact that she did not come to Ireland in order to “better her economic circumstances and her life there was not a deprived one”; therefore the very fact that she could forego her presumed comfort in her country to come to Ireland with her daughters who are still infants, on the basis of a direct and continuing threat to their lives, to seek asylum needs to be unequivocally commended, and having failed in that bid, went into hiding, was arrested and detained in Mount joy prison and subsequently released in 2006 and is now seeking to challenge her children’s deportation back to a country where her husbands family “actively practised” female genital mutilation which had earlier cost her the life of her first daughter Elizabeth. The above is enough evidence to entitle her the judicial review sought.

It is accepted that the Court’s role in reviewing deportation orders is limited, however the universal fact that the court is the hope of the defenceless, should override all other considerations. Therefore, it can be argued that Mr Justice Feeney may have erred in his ruling that Pamela had “established no basis for judicial review” and has subsequently failed to take into account the English position in Ms Fornah’s case where Baroness Hale of Richmond stated that “its so blindingly obvious that asylum law applied” to direct and continuing threat of female circumcision. Emphasis added.
Equally the House of Lords ruled that in line with the Refugee Convention, female members of communities where FGM is practised qualify as a social group fearing persecution. Furthermore, Lord Bingham of Cornhill described the practise as a “horrendous treatment” which is crudely performed and causes excruciating pain. Trauma and shock, exposure to HIV and blood-borne diseases, risk of death by infection, increased infertility and infant mortality and a number of other traumas: - Justice Feeney would definitely not wish that these two infants undergo this avoidable ordeal.
Similarly, the UN Refugee-UK representative told the BBC news that “… if properly interpreted, refugees can encompass women (girls) who have been persecuted for gender-related reasons”. While in the Australian case, Liz Connor advocated that FGM be “unequivocally considered a gross violation of human rights …and should be considered foremost in their application for Refugee status”.

Effectually, Pamela and her daughters wishes to be protected in Ireland is a stand alone instance which should simply take precedence over complex legal ambiguities of evidence of a genuine risk, as Mr Justice Liam McKechnie had earlier in 2006 found that they had “established substantial grounds”, which impliedly means that Jemima and Naomi are entitled to be heard and protected from the physical and medical harm and presumably ostracization by their native community as there are no support groups to protect an unwilling woman or girl against this practise. The smiles on the faces of these infants needs to be sustained as there can be no other HOME to them than the Sligo community which has accommodated them since coming into Ireland.
Therefore judicial semantics should not be used as a footnote tool to whittle down the force of the all-encompassing provision of the Irish Constitutional Preamble of Justice, Prudence and Charity.

EMEKA IKEBUASI
33 Wrenville, Carrigaline
Co. Cork.
akbar_ng@yahoo.com
0877565412

by seraphim Thu Feb 07, 2008 16:42

If you want to remove your children from the danger of FGM the solution is simple. Move to a part of Nigeria where FGM isn't practiced (i.e. most of that huge country). Claiming that you had to come to Ireland to avoid FGM is arrant nonsense, and everyone knows it.

Every aspect of this matter has been heard several times. By ORAC, by the RAT, and by the Courts. In each instance, and independently, the persons and bodies who heard Both sides of the evidence came to the same conclusion - the story told by this asylum seeker was not credible.

The real issue for Ireland is to ensure that FGM isn't imported here. We should be very wary indeed of allowing people into Ireland from places where this abominable practice is customary.

If you really want to stop FGM being practiced in those parts of Nigeria where it is common you might consider organizing a picket of the Nigerian embassy to highlight the scandal..

by what a load of shit! Thu Feb 07, 2008 17:30

The dept of justice has never appointed a trauma counsellor and must at
request of the women use counsellors from ruhama/rcc

this is because they lack cunts- excuse my french, but mostly people are used to it.

Now:- when our irish went to the UK/USA and general diaspora they expected to be treated
as human beings and we do not afford the same respect to women and children of
other cultures.

I do not know if this is inherent racism or gender inequaliy- they are very, very good
at paying for expensive reports that go on shelves. They wish to build detention
centres when the prisons are in shit and they have not announced if the centres will
indeed have facilities for victims of rape.

whomever in this beautiful and dirty land of thieves can say that they vote
FF/SF because they want a fair deal for immigrants (irish) may surely
be capable of extending that to the vulnerable of opther cultures- who btw have
EU and International rights and the UN are soon to measure the issue of
immigrant equality in EU nation states....

(it all goes on the record of the current and previous government and they cannae
uri geller the fecking law)

http://www.ruhama.ie
http://www.drcc.ie

by Mark Wed Mar 19, 2008 14:23

i just want to ad my voice to this.. as the threat deportation is looming, i ask that mercy be shown. to repeat on some of the earlier comments.. we as irish have a history of immgration for econmic reasons.. we had not been treated well in host countries for a long, time.. of course this has changed now with our apparant wealth.. but where is our wealth of kindness? this is not an economic case.. the is a mercy case.. please show it.

by oneopinion Mon Jan 26, 2009 01:42

I couldn't help but read this article and at first I was over emotional about the situation. I sincerely agree that FGM is a serious and dangerous practice. The tradition is upheld with great tradition, sometimes the women are respectful of it as it is a coming of age practice, but other times it is brutally forced upon them. Now, as far as this situation, the woman seeking asylum has my sympathies, and I don't agree with Irish bureaucracy on many fronts, for personal reasons, however, I agree that people seeking asylum in any state can, and usually do, become a burden to that state. They are given more rights in America, for example, than American citizens in dire circumstances are given, especially in regards to health care rights and welfare privileges. You can be idealistic that it won't become a problem, but in a small country with so much unoccupied land (by this I mean no apartments and suburbs..not that it is unowned), it will eventually. If she can prove to not be a burden on the state and support herself and her children, then it is fair, in my opinion, to give her a chance. If not, then perhaps she should seek asylum elsewhere. I can't help but think that there are many, many more people in need all over the world and as heartbreaking as it is to even consider not being helpful, sometimes it makes sense in the long run. I pray for her children's safety. But I also think maybe we don't know the full story behind her deportation. If people want to do something to help all of these women who are at risk for FGM, then maybe they should consider forcibly outlawing the practice in those societies as cruel and inhumane.

by Changey Thu Mar 19, 2009 15:03

...and on whether it will take place? This issue seems to have gone very quiet.

I personally feel that Pamela and 3 daughters should be allowed remain in Ireland. Not because I believe there is a serious threat of FGM to any of them in Nigeria, but on the admittedly flimsy basis that they have been here for so long and it is the only place her daughters have been able to call home. Deporting them after so long would be terrible.

Best of Luck in the future Pamela

by abayo Thu Mar 19, 2009 22:43

Yes. I understand she lost her final appeal under the Irish system but she is appealing to the court of human rights in the Hague. I have no news on the progress of this appeal.