US Election Countdown....

by redjade Fri Oct 29, 2004 13:06

9/11 "black box" cover-up at Ground Zero?

by William Bunch
http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/extra/archives/001139.html

Two men who worked extensively in the wreckage of the World Trade Center claim they helped federal agents find three of the four “black boxes” from the jetliners that struck the towers on 9/11 - contradicting the official account.

Both the independent 9/11 Commission and federal authorities continue to insist that none of the four devices - a cockpit voice recorder (CVR) and flight data recorder (FDR) from the two planes - were ever found in the wreckage.

But New York City firefighter Nicholas DeMasi has written in a recent book -- self-published by several Ground Zero workers -- that he escorted federal agents on an all-terrain vehicle in October 2001 and helped them locate three of the four.

His account is supported by a volunteer, Mike Bellone, whose efforts at Ground Zero have been chronicled in the New York Times and elsewhere. Bellone said assisted DeMasi and the agents and that saw a device that resembling a “black box” in the back of the firefighter’s ATV.

Their story raises the question of whether there was a some type of cover-up at Ground Zero. Federal aviation officials - blaming the massive devastation - have said the World Trade Center attacks seem to be the only major jetliner crashes in which the critical devices were never located.

A footnote to the 9/11 Commission Report issued this summer flatly states: “The CVRs and FDRs from American 11 and United 175” - the two planes that hit the Trade Center - “were not found.”
.....

William Bunch Biog - 1992 Pulitzer Prize winner
http://pdn.philly.com/2004/08/30/bio.htm

by redjade Fri Oct 29, 2004 13:09

A Florida man has been charged with attempting to run over controversial Republican congresswoman Katherine Harris with his Cadillac. According to the below Sarasota Police Department report, Barry Seltzer, 46, told cops that he was simply exercising his "political expression" when he drove his car at Harris and several supporters, who were campaigning last night at a Sarasota intersection. Seltzer--pictured at right in a booking photo--allegedly drove up on a sidewalk and headed directly for Harris before swerving "at the last minute." Harris told officers that "she was afraid for her life and could not move as the vehicle approached her," according to the report. For his part, Seltzer--who's a registered Democrat--told cops, "I intimidated them with the car. They were standing in the street." He added, "I did not run them down, I scared them a little!"

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1027042harris1.html

by redjade Fri Oct 29, 2004 13:18

The official re-election site of President George W Bush is blocking visits from overseas users for "security reasons".

The blocking began early on Monday so those outside the US and trying to view the site got a message saying they are not authorised to view it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3961557.stm

try it yourself to find out if 'you are with us or against us':
http://georgewbush.com

by redjade Fri Oct 29, 2004 13:25

Ladies and gentlemen,
...drop your borders!

If George W. Bush is re-elected, single, sexy, American liberals - already a threatened species - will be desperate to escape.

These lonely, afraid (did we mention really hot?) progressives will need a safe haven.

You can help. Open your heart, and your home. Marry an American. Legions of Canadians have already pledged to sacrifice their singlehood to save our southern neighbours from four more years of cowboy conservatism

http://www.marryanamerican.ca/

by redjade Fri Oct 29, 2004 13:30

"What I'm about to say is very arrogant - arrogant to a fault," said Hughes, a former chief of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), in previously unreported remarks at a March 2003 Harvard University forum on "Future Conditions: The Character and Conduct of War, 2010 and 2020."

"Set aside what the mass of people think. Some things are so bad for them that you cannot allow them to have them. One of them is war in the context of terrorism in the United States," Hughes said, according to a transcript obtained by CQ Homeland Security.

"Therefore, we have to abridge individual rights, change the societal conditions, and act in ways that heretofore were not in accordance with our values and traditions, like giving a police officer or security official the right to search you without a judicial finding of probable cause," said Hughes.

"Things are changing, and this change is happening because things can be brought to us that we cannot afford to absorb. We can't deal with them, so we're going to reach out and do something ahead of time to preclude them.

"Is that going to change your lives?" Hughes asked rhetorically. "It already has."

from Congressional Quarterly
http://www.mail-archive.com/infowarrior@g2-forward.org/msg00246.html

by votenader Fri Oct 29, 2004 13:39

Vote Ralph Nader for President!

Ralph Nader is the only candidate in this election that is anti war, anti corporate and pro worker. Kerry is no alternative for the working class, ethnic minorities or the anti war movement.

by votenader Fri Oct 29, 2004 13:41

Supporters of Kerry can hardly be serious when they cry wolf about the Republicans denying people the oppurtunity to vote. throughout the USA the Democrats have been taking Ralph Nader to court trying to stop his name appear on ballots, as a result Nader will only appear on ballots in 35 states and has even been excluded as a write-in candidate in some states including Ohio.

by Ed Fri Oct 29, 2004 13:42

It will be all over on Wed., and you can back to normal Bush bashing.
Bush will win, significantly enough so that the lawyers will be silent by Thursday.

by redjade Fri Oct 29, 2004 13:51

U.S. Army Corps of Engineers commanders awarded a lucrative contract extension to Halliburton Co. this month by circumventing the organization's top contracting officer, who had objected to the proposal, according to documents obtained by the Los Angeles Times.

Bunnatine Greenhouse, the Corps of Engineers' chief contracting officer, questioned a decision by commanders to award a contract extension to Halliburton, the oil services company run by Dick Cheney until he became vice president, without the competitive bidding designed to protect U.S. taxpayers.

The FBI is seeking to question Greenhouse, her lawyer said Thursday, marking an expansion of the bureau's ongoing investigation of other Halliburton contracts.

"I cannot approve this," Greenhouse wrote on one version of the proposal that is filled with her handwritten scrawls such as "Incorrect!"; "No! How!"; and "Not a valid reason."

Greenhouse, who was threatened with demotion after raising objections to the Halliburton contract, sent her complaints to acting Army Secretary Les Brownlee. Portions of her letter to Brownlee were obtained by Time magazine last week.

by redjade Fri Oct 29, 2004 13:55

....voting for John Kerry now is like voting for LBJ in 1964 with full precognition of what he was going to do in Vietnam for the next four years. By all means vote for the guy if you think your ballot will really count in keeping Ralph Nader out of the White House, but don’t do so with the notion that all along John Kerry has been holding a secret withdrawal plan close to his chest and that his first three months in office will see the US Marines haul down the colors from the US embassy in Baghdad, scoop Ambassador Negroponte off the roof and head for home.

That’s not what Democrats do when they get into office. When they settle down in the White House and put up the portraits of Teddy Roosevelt and Harry Truman in the Oval Office, they settle down to fight the usual good fight of all Democratic presidents, which is battling the slur that they are wimps, and less than real men.

by redjade Fri Oct 29, 2004 13:57

Calling George Bush a "chicken hawk" and promising that he would never let the Democratic Party "get away" with attempts to kick him off the presidential ballot in swing states, independent candidate Ralph Nader said this morning at a press conference in Washington, D.C., that he would stay in the campaign until the bitter end.

In recent weeks, courts in Pennsylvania and Ohio have booted him from the ballot, ruling that his qualifying petitions—which contained patently phony signatures, including several instances of his own name and those of cartoon characters—didn't make the cut.

by redjade Fri Oct 29, 2004 14:06

New Florida vote scandal feared
By Greg Palast, BBC
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/3956129.stm

A secret document obtained from inside Bush campaign headquarters in Florida suggests a plan - possibly in violation of US law - to disrupt voting in the state's African-American voting districts, a BBC Newsnight investigation reveals.

Two e-mails, prepared for the executive director of the Bush campaign in Florida and the campaign's national research director in Washington DC, contain a 15-page so-called "caging list".

It lists 1,886 names and addresses of voters in predominantly black and traditionally Democrat areas of Jacksonville, Florida.

An elections supervisor in Tallahassee, when shown the list, told Newsnight: "The only possible reason why they would keep such a thing is to challenge voters on election day."

Ion Sancho, a Democrat, noted that Florida law allows political party operatives inside polling stations to stop voters from obtaining a ballot.


.......

Also....

Plan B: 'October/November Surprise'
By Robert Parry
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/102704.html

Bush’s Plan B looks to be a kind of "October/November Surprise," a coordinated strategy to suppress the vote in battleground states like Ohio and especially in Democratic strongholds. The heart of the plan will be to swarm the polls with Republican activists who will use challenges against individual voters to tie up the process, lengthen voting lines and cause time-strapped voters to give up and go home.

To some political historians, the scheme has the offensive smell of Jim Crow tactics used during the days of the segregationist South to keep African-Americans from voting. But the strategy has a more recent precedent, the disruption of recounts in Florida in November 2000 as Bush was clinging to a tiny lead.

Jim Crow alive and well - but also in the North

by redjade Fri Oct 29, 2004 14:53

So far as she knows, Pufferbelly Toys owner Stephanie Cox hasn't been passing any state secrets to sinister foreign governments, or violating obscure clauses in the Patriot Act.

So she was taken aback by a mysterious phone call from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to her small store in this quiet Columbia River town just north of Portland.

"I was shaking in my shoes," Cox said of the September phone call. "My first thought was the government can shut your business down on a whim, in my opinion. If I'm closed even for a day that would cause undue stress."

When the two agents arrived at the store, the lead agent asked Cox whether she carried a toy called the Magic Cube, which he said was an illegal copy of the Rubik's Cube, one of the most popular toys of all time.

He told her to remove the Magic Cube from her shelves, and he watched to make sure she complied.

by redjade Fri Oct 29, 2004 15:15

Who am I hoping will win? Definitely Kerry. There’s no question about it. I want Bush out of the White House at all costs. (And yes- who is *in* the White House *is* my business- Americans, you made it my business when you occupied my country last year) I’m too realistic to expect drastic change or anything phenomenal, but I don’t want Bush reelected because his reelection (or shall I call it his ‘reassignment’) will condone the wars on Afghanistan and Iraq. It will say that this catastrophe in Iraq was worth its price in American and Iraqi lives. His reassignment to the White House will sanction all the bloodshed and terror we’ve been living for the last year and a half.

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/2004_10_01_riverbendblog_archive.html#109873398468953838

by redjade Fri Oct 29, 2004 15:42

found at
http://lawgeek.typepad.com/lawgeek/2004/10/sample_rightwin.html

full photo at
http://lawgeek.typepad.com/Lake%20County%20Suppression%20letter.jpg

by redjade Fri Oct 29, 2004 15:48

Republican candidate Abel Maldonado and Democratic candidate Peg Pinard have been the most visible in the Senate race for the 15th District. However, there is a third person running. His campaign hasn't gotten a lot of attention, but it's not without controversy.

Brooke Madsen said he has unofficially dropped out of the race because it didn't feel right when Republicans paid for him to get on the ballot as a Green Party candidate to be, as he says, an election spoiler.

[....]

"I was eventually propositioned by the Republicans to run under the pretext they were Greens, and I took it. I knew it was kind of strange, and I went ahead with it. I did it anyway. They gave me $1,000 for my filing fees, which I took. Eventually, I did figure out the whole truth," Madsen said.

The truth, Madsen said, is that Republicans paid to put him on the ballot to take votes away from Peg Pinard.

http://www.theksbwchannel.com/politics/3859116/detail.html

by eeekkk Fri Oct 29, 2004 16:38

.

by spotter Fri Oct 29, 2004 17:56

"Senate race for the 15th District. "

Obviously a dodgy article. In the senate elections the constituencies are the states NOT congressional districts. In House elections the constituencies are the congressional districts.

by Ray Fri Oct 29, 2004 18:03

And your friend is happy to tell you that they are candidates for the state senate. The article is fine.

by pc Fri Oct 29, 2004 18:50

good round up of what next stuff in indy sf...

Beyond Voting Actions on November 3rd
http://www.indybay.org/archives/archive_by_id.php?id=2451&category_id=45
--

National Fightback Conference
http://www.workers.org/conf/
--
http://www.dontjustvote.com/ sponsored by IAC and Answer?
--
VoteNoOne 04 http://www.votenoone04.com/index2.html
--
Don't Just Vote mp3 (Ryan Harvey) http://www.heartofdarkness.org/ryan/Other/DontJustVote2.mp3

--
...Dont Just Vote. Take Action!
http://www.foodnotbombs.net/dont_just_vote.html

by eeekkkk Sat Oct 30, 2004 02:16

.

by Tim Sat Oct 30, 2004 19:38

What Bush is doing is evil!
He must be stopped!

Iraq was once run by sadistic dictator Saddam Hussein and is now on its way to being only the third democratic nation in the Middle East along with Israel and Afghanistan.

Afghanistan was once run by the medievally savage Taliban and is now a free democracy with a new President Karzai while Al-Qaida terrorist training camps have been obiliterated and thousands of terrorists are dead. Ossam Bin Laden hiding like an animal can only answer the Americans with silly video postcards in order to prove his still breathing - just barely.

Libya had developed and possessed WMD and now seeing the example of the liberation of Iraq Gaddafi has surrendered to the UN inspectors and the IAEA who have destroyed those WMD.

Al-Qaida cells in the United States have been destroyed and terrorists from around the world are caged In Guantanomo Bay.
Not one- NOT ONE terrorist incident has occured in the United States THREE YEARS after 9/11!

What Bush has done is outrageous!

VOTE KERRY

If Bush returns billions will be spent to combat poverty and AIDS in Africa!
Free trade, prosperity and democracy will be spread through the world!
North Korea, Syria and Iran will undergo regime change!
The world will no longer be under threat from communism and Islamic fundementalism!

BUSH MUST LOSE! HE MUST BE STOPPED!

by Noel Sat Oct 30, 2004 20:21

So ol' OBL admitted to 9/11.

What about Mossad?
I understood, from this site, that Mossad and GWB and Rumsfeld were the real perpetrators of that particular atrocity.

Who would have thunk it?

by kintama Sun Oct 31, 2004 01:57

didnt catch OBLs speech but given that he is still alive it seems unlikely that he personally carried out any of the attacks.
it is of course clear that the triumvirate of goodness you refer to were not perpetrators. however my reading of this site is that views were expressed that at least two of these were aware of a plot (George W can be excused ) but not that they actually carried out attacks.

when Donald was still only a raving neo- con dreaming of political power he coincidently had a strange fixation with Iraq ,Afghanistan and future projects such as Iran and Syria .the one thing he reckoned was needed to allow the US to mix it with the 'beards and moustaches' was a catastrophic attack on the land of the free.

you pays your money you takes your chances

by Devil Dog Sun Oct 31, 2004 02:31

Kintama, your use of the term "neo-Con" to describe Rummy truly shows that you have no fucking clue what you are talking about....keep it up, you're hilarious.

by pc Sun Oct 31, 2004 02:39

http://www.beyondvoting.org/

by kintama Sun Oct 31, 2004 16:23

up late last night DD doing some googling. neos, paleos, right wing nutters who cares its just a general term used to describe the type of company Donald keeps.
no denial however that the type of catastrophic event seen as necessary by members of the aforementioned groups to mix it with the "beards and moustaches" was not foremost in their minds when they were contributing to right wing think tanks before George W gave them the opportunity to unlease their nutcase theories on the world.

by righteous pragmatist Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:04

Is it a "nutcase theory" that Ossama Bin Laden and Al-Qaida attacked America on 9/11 and present the greatest danger to free world since the Soviet Union?
Is it a "nutcase theory" to go to war against these grotesque mass murdering cretins like Saddam Hussein?
Is it a "nutcase theory" to consider that the people of Middle East need democracy, human rights and freedom from tyrants and Islamic fundementalist lunatics?

There is one "nutcase theory" however.
It is the belief that America should retreat on all fronts and remain on the defensive within its own borders and wait for Al-Qaida to demolish our cities with more hijacked aircraft or release chemical weapons or allow Iran and North Korea to attack us first with nukes.
That's suicide.
America doesn't dig.

4 MORE YEARS! GO DUBYA!

by anagram - "nothing has changed" Mon Nov 01, 2004 15:03

Osama has close to the end of his equity contract reminded us that the Free World united in it's belief that a fluid organisation named Al Qaeda after western spelling of a very rarely translated arabic phrase, had been responsible for an aerial assault on The Pentagon, World Trade Centre Twin Towers, and a very little known underground base in Maryland.

These events occured early in the morning EST of the 11th of September.

Osama in his first statement denied involvement on the 14th of September.

By which stage all members of his family and the Saudi Royal family had been evacuated from the USA.

By which stage most had discounted the first group to claim responsibility, a far right Japanese group who declared in the afternoon of September 11 that the act had avenged Hiroshima.

By which stage the world had thanks to the German Media learnt the name of the "leader" of the September 11 team who had dissappeared along with several other hundred passengers on aircraft which had left on domestic US routes early that morning.

Is it a nutcase theory to hypothise that if Bush had not been awarded the White House by the Supreme Court, that 911 the US telephone emergency code would not have become the pivotal terrorist event of our times?

Is it a nutcase theory to hypothise that if Bush had not been approved as president elect by the US Senate only after the shameful silencing of Afro-American congressmen and women, that 911 would not have been followed by March 11th Madrid?

Is it a nutcase theory to hypothise that if Bush had not been the nomimal figurehead of the US imperialist government, that the United Nations would still be the proper and sole body of international arbitration?

Is it a nutcase theory to hypothise that if Gore and Lieberman had entered the White House four years ago, the Twin Towers would stand, the wall between Israel and Palestine would not have been built, and Yassar Arafat would not now be under medical supervision and in the protective custody of the Republic of France on the eve of an election which has validated, legitimised and raised
Bush from usurper to President?

More Americans will vote tomorrow than in any election in history, whoever wins, they will carry a MANDATE the likes of which has never been enjoyed by any President.

And we the disenfranchised second class citizens of the Occidental empire, may only watch and wait as millions of average americans who shall never even meet a muslim, let alone leave their state, who have not achieved an education level equivalent to a European's mid secondary level schooling, who weigh considerably more than us make decisions which _effect_ us more than they.

The Bush legacy is the logical consequence of his father's work. New World Order has begun. Ave Caesar! / Ave Consul!
give them circus. We know our place.

by James Mon Nov 01, 2004 16:05

...and a very little known underground base in Maryland...
!!!!
very funny - why not make a real point?
9/11 was plotted before the 2000 election,
and before Arafat backed out of the best chance for middle east peace -
you really dont get it

by righteous pragmatist Mon Nov 01, 2004 17:42

"Is it a nutcase theory to hypothise that if Bush had not been awarded the White House by the Supreme Court, that 911 the US telephone emergency code would not have become the pivotal terrorist event of our times?"

YES!

"Is it a nutcase theory to hypothise that if Bush had not been approved as president elect by the US Senate only after the shameful silencing of Afro-American congressmen and women, that 911 would not have been followed by March 11th Madrid?"

YES!

"Is it a nutcase theory to hypothise that if Bush had not been the nomimal figurehead of the US imperialist government, that the United Nations would still be the proper and sole body of international arbitration?"

YES!

"Is it a nutcase theory to hypothise that if Gore and Lieberman had entered the White House four years ago, the Twin Towers would stand, the wall between Israel and Palestine would not have been built, and Yassar Arafat would not now be under medical supervision and in the protective custody of the Republic of France on the eve of an election which has validated, legitimised and raised
Bush from usurper to President?"

YES!

by Timothy Mon Nov 01, 2004 21:26

These transcripts of bugged telephone calls tell an eerie story:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE VOICE #1: "Hello?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE VOICE #2: "We're all wondering when your candidate is going to have the grace and good taste to concede."
UMV#1: "Concede? He's not going to concede. There have been voting irregularities and . . ."
UMV#2: "C'mon! He lost Ohio, he lost Florida, he lost Michigan . . ."
UMV#1: "He maybe lost Ohio, he may have actually won Florida and Michigan . . . well, okay, you get Michigan."
UMV#2: "C'mon! It's been a long night. Just do the right thing and get it over with. You know you lost. Ohio, Florida . . . c'mon. The networks are about to call the thing for our guy."
UMV#1: "Networks? As in plural?"
UMV#2: "Well, Fox."
UMV#1: "Gimme a break."
UMV#2: "It's over, okay? Give it up!"
UMV#1: "See you in court."

EXTRACT 2: 11/03/04 00:13 EST
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE VOICE #1: "Sioux City DoubleTree Suites Hotel, good evening, may I help you, please?"
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE VOICE #2: "I'd like to reserve some rooms, please."
UFV#1: "Certainly, ma'am, I'll connect you to room reservations."
[Unidentified hold music]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE VOICE #1: "Reservations, this is Sanjay, may I help you?"
UFV#2: "I'd like to reserve some rooms please."
UMV#1: "Certainly, ma'am. For which dates?"
UFV#2: "From January 2007 to January 2008."
UMV#1: "We are showing availability for those dates. May I ask how many rooms you're wishing to reserve?"
UFV#2: "26."
UMV#1: "Certainly, ma'am. That's 26 rooms in our Sioux City, Iowa, property for one year. May I have the name as it appears on the credit card?"
UFV#2: "Last name is Rodham. First name, Hillary."...

by Think first Mon Nov 01, 2004 22:54 Canada

If i was one of you and able to vote tomorow.......before making a final descision i would think about all the innocent people getting kill in the Middle East leaving mothers and kids all by themself at home.......and for what purpose or reason........Abuse of Power........So use your power this time and kick him off the trone......and save your love one.............If your President had to be on the battlefield like it was done years ago with is troop behind him........i dont think he would be acting the same way............When i go deer hunting i dont let someone else hunt for me...........i am the one that chase the deer not someone else.........It's time to wake up guys.......

Make the right descision.

by vote nader Tue Nov 02, 2004 15:15

"If i was one of you and able to vote tomorow.......before making a final descision i would think about all the innocent people getting kill in the Middle East leaving mothers and kids all by themself at home"

I agree completely. That's why I'm supporting Nader. Kerry supports the 'war on terror' and will continue to implement imperialist foreign policies.

by fhu Tue Nov 02, 2004 15:40

Here’s a chance to kill two birds with the one stone…..a insightful look at post-election Bush administration and for all you ‘anti-racists’ check out the ' Grover Norquist, the right-wing activist who runs Americans for Tax Reform, calls it "the limited-government, pro-free trade, immigrant-friendly Reagan coalition".'


It must make all you “anti-racist” and “ anti-fascists” cringe to realise you’ve been pushing for the neocon agenda all along the part that didn't exist here already that is….ironic, but we could have told you so...but no, you KNEW EVERYTHING, typical!

by redjade Tue Nov 02, 2004 16:24

As distasteful as it was, the stunt had the smell of desperation. (“Where evil meets stupid,” Stephen Elliott called it.) If Republicans are spending Sunday afternoon trying to fool voters with the some Gay Adoption signs then they must be in trouble. And the people in line weren’t buying. “Nobody in this line is going to listen to them,” one woman said. A chorus of voters on either side chimed in: “That’s right”; “We’re know what we’re doing”; “We’re voting for Kerry no matter what that guy in the sign thinks he’s saying.”


Among the few people who didn’t realize what was happening at first, they were extremely annoyed when they figured it out. “Is that Republicans over there? Yeah, it is!” said a man toward the back of the line. “They’re gonna come down here and, try to try to fool us? That’s not happening.” Behind him, a woman added: “Un-huh, that’s not right.”

US Repubs pretend to be gay

by redjade Tue Nov 02, 2004 16:35

http://www.madeyouthink.org/

photo series...

by Pollster Tue Nov 02, 2004 16:41

The average of the polls just released this morning is as follows:

Bush 51%
Kerry 48%
Nader 1%

In the battleground states:
Bush 50%
Kerry 46%
Nader 1%

Looks like Bush will win it. If Kerry is to win it it probably will not be with the popular vote.

by redjade Tue Nov 02, 2004 16:51

Ralph Nader limped to his own finish line yesterday, vowing not to be a ``wasted'' vote but looming with 1 percent in polls in a race that ends as tight as it began.

     ``The only vote you ever waste is a vote for someone you don't believe in,'' the 70-year-old liberal activist said in New York, where he closed his campaign by inflating a giant pig on Wall Street.

     On the ballot in 35 states plus Washington, D.C., Nader's presence - particularly in battleground states such as Florida - has Democrats terrified.

     ``He's lost his compass, I worry he's lost his mind,'' liberal firebrand Michael Moore said yesterday on his Web site.

     At his New York event, Nader had to shout over hecklers who said, ``Nader is a traitor,'' and, ``Vanity, thy name is Nader.''

     Nader polls at about 1 percent in most polls, though he does better in the liberal Northeast and Pacific Northwest.

by redjade Tue Nov 02, 2004 17:00

New information indicates that hackers may be targeting the central computers counting our votes tomorrow. All county elections officials who use modems to transfer votes from polling places to the central vote-counting server should disconnect the modems now.

[....]

It appears that such an attack may already have taken place, in a primary election 6 weeks ago in King County, Washington -- a large jurisdiction with over one million registered voters. Documents, including internal audit logs for the central vote-counting computer, along with modem "trouble slips" consistent with hacker activity, show that the system may have been hacked on Sept. 14, 2004. Three hours is now missing from the vote-counting computer's "audit log," an automatically generated record, similar to the black box in an airplane, which registers certain kinds of events.

by redjade Tue Nov 02, 2004 17:06

87. GOP in South Dakota intimidates Native American voters by writing down their license plate numbers - judge orders them to stop the practice [via Demos, a report in the Argus Leader]: Details in the South Dakota page under Voting in Red States. 

86. Illegal (felon) and false voter registrations reported in Nevada [via Votersunite, a story in the Chicago Tribune]: Details in the Nevada page under Voting in Swing States. 

85. Iowa Republican Auditor wrongly sends away student voters in line at closing time and refuses to hold another day of early voting to compensate [via Votersunite, a story in the Des Moines Register]: Details in the Iowa page under Voting in Swing States. 

84. Fraudulent robo (phone) calls to heavily Democratic counties in Michigan provide false information on polling locations and claim that a vote for Kerry is a vote for gay marriage [via Josh Marshall, here is an article in the Detroit Free Press]: Details in the Michigan page under Voting in Swing States. 

------------

and the list goes on and on and on and.....

check out: http://vote2004.eriposte.com/

by Laurence Winch-Furness - Young Juche League Tue Nov 02, 2004 17:06 lwinch_furness at yahoo dot com

I am very interested in Ralph Neyder and the green movement in america, and I sympathise with his position entirely. However, the awkward fact remains that Neyder is not going to win, and is inadvertantly helping Bush. This makes the democrats viciosly attack him, and they say he should step down. But to his defence Neyder says that he is promoting democracy, and that voters deserve more than two paties to chose from, besides which, he is pushing green isues onto the agenda. But if the greens and democrats formed a coalition, they could have the best of both worlds. The democrats would almost certainly have Kerry for president, Neyder would be given a powerfull platform from which to express his veiws and after a few yeras he could stand as an independent, and win far more votes than he otherwise would. Bit late now I know, but I think its a good idea.

by righteous pragmatist Tue Nov 02, 2004 17:14

Okay, before about 4 p.m. Friday afternoon, I was going to predict a narrow Bush win: 271 to 267 in the Electoral College, with a 51-48-1 popular-vote margin.

Then the Osama tape came out.

So revising for an event that I believe puts terrorism front and center in voters' minds, as of this posting, my prediction is Bush 295, Kerry 243. Popular vote? Bush 52, Kerry 47, Nader 1.

Here's the short version:

Maine's 2nd Congressional District: Kerry

New Hampshire: Kerry

New Jersey: Kerry

Pennsylvania: Kerry

West Virginia: Bush

Ohio: Bush

Michigan: Kerry

Wisconsin: Kerry

Iowa: Bush

Minnesota: Bush

Florida: Bush

New Mexico: Kerry

Nevada: Bush

Colorado: Bush

Oregon: Kerry

Washington: Kerry

Hawaii: Bush


The gist of my philosophy goes like this: On Election Night 2000, each side had its share of disappointments. Bush really thought he was going to carry Michigan, Pennsylvania, and New Mexico — and that New Jersey would be a lot closer. Obviously, Team Gore was shocked that they lost Tennessee, Arkansas, and West Virginia. So my assumption is that each campaign is going to have moments on Election Night when they ask, "How did we blow that one?"

Maybe something like the Osama tape sends every swing state breaking for one guy or the other. But for now, I'm thinking that both sides are going to have their "Oh, drat" moments. My assessment, starting in the east and heading west:

Maine's 2nd Congressional District: Kerry, by a slim margin. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Bush surged here, and would love to watch the networks have to break out the colored markers and make Maine one-quarter red.

New Hampshire: Color this red state blue. I think many are putting the Granite State in Kerry's pile out of its closeness to Massachusetts, and the number of Massachusetts transplants who have moved there in the past four years. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to see Bush carry it, and if he does, it strikes me as a key early indicator that both sides can hit the bars — or bed — early.

New Jersey: Kerry. Maybe I'm wrong; maybe I'm overreacting to my bad prediction of 2000. Maybe I'm underestimating the 9/11 effect; and maybe the Osama tape enhances a pro-Bush 9/11 effect. I actually think this one will be surprisingly close (Doh! There I go again!), but let's keep this state blue, with Kerry winning by two or three points. A showing like that wouldn't be anything for Bush to be ashamed of, considering that he lost the state by 16 points four years ago.

Pennsylvania: Kerry, but I'm startin' to wonder. The polls are awfully close; Kerry had to have Clinton visit; and both sides are spending a lot of money there. I really thought Kerry was going to have this state wrapped up by now. If Gore won this one by five, then maybe this time it's Kerry by a point or two. Again, I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest to see Bush pull ahead in this state, and guarantee an early night for all of us. I wonder if Governor Eddie Rendell's recent decisions to hold up military ballots — while simultaneously doing everything possible to help felons vote from prison — will trigger a backlash. Those "hey-buddy-prove-it's-illegal" machine-style operations might be par for the course in Philadelphia, but that stuff won't play well in the rest of the state, where honor still means something. Paint this one the lightest shade of blue.

Ohio: Stays Bush, but it currently is close. I'm very interested to see how the Arnie appearance plays with independents, undecideds, and young voters. Why do I suspect that the state's blue-collar hunting guys will reject any candidate labeled an "economic girlie-man"? If you have been reading Battlegrounders, you know the Bush campaign's get-out-the-vote team effort here is as good as it gets. The Guardian's letter-writing effort fizzled and was widely mocked. This is one of those states where I wonder if the ACT and ACORN groups are going to show that when you pay folks off the street eight bucks an hour to get voters registered, you get what you pay for. Late on Election Day, I picture some ACORN manager saying, "Why can't I find the street address for Dick Tracy and Mary Poppins on the map? Time is running out, people! Why can't we find these folks and get them to the polls?"

Michigan: Kerry, but surprisingly close. If morale among the Kerry folks drops, I wouldn't be shocked to see this go into the Bush pile. Same with Pennsylvania, actually. Judging by all the Bush and Cheney visits to this state in the final days, Karl Rove must think they have a serious shot at it. Give it to Kerry by a point or two.

Florida: Bush. Perhaps I'm absolutely crazy, but I think Florida won't be as close as everyone says. The GOP has been studying how to win this state for the past four years. Remember how the early call for Gore cost Bush votes in the heavily GOP panhandle? The state party estimated it at 40,000 votes; even if that's doubling the actual number, a 20,537-vote margin is better than a 537-vote margin. And remember how Terry McAuliffe and the Democrats planned on taking out all their anger on Jeb Bush in 2002? Jeb cruised to victory by 13 points. I think Kerry has an uphill climb for a lot of reasons: no Lieberman to appeal to Jewish voters; blacks are less enthusiastic about him than they were for Gore; and he's not doing as well among non-Cuban Hispanics, either. Kerry cited the Cuban Missile Crisis last week, giving Cubans that one last reminder they needed of why they hate Democrats.

Iowa: Bush. Ironically, this little state that launched the Kerry campaign to the Democratic nomination is one of the hardest to figure out. I put this one into the real toss-up pile for most of the year, and the number of Kerry and Edwards visits, week after week, has been really surprising. I'm trusting Gerry Dales and throwing this one into the Bush column. Think of this as one of those states where "something goes wrong for Kerry."

Wisconsin: Kerry. Right now, I think it's leaning Bush, based on Kerry's defensive visits and spending there. Oh, how "Lambert Field" hurt Kerry with the cheese heads. I know that the RealClearPolitics average has Kerry up by one, but that includes Zogby's poll, which has Kerry up 5, which strikes me as a little out of whack. But I'm putting this one under the "something goes wrong for Bush" pile.

Minnesota: Bush. Let me put it this way. Of the three upper-Midwest blue states — Iowa, Wisconsin, and Minnesota — I think Bush will take at least two of three. Reports on the ground show that this is another state that has been cited by the Bush folks as a grade-A, top-of-the-line get-out-the-vote effort, with a big growth in the exurbs.

Colorado: Bush. I doubt it will be all that close, and the proportional-split-of-electoral-votes referenda won't pass. If you check RealClearPolitics, Kerry hasn't led in Colorado all year long.

Nevada: Bush. Only Zogby has ever shown Kerry leading.

New Mexico: Kerry. It's Bush's lead — at 4.0 in the RealClearPolitics average, and at 5 in the Mason-Dixon (the most accurate 2002 pollster) survey — against Gov. Bill Richardson's get-out-the-fraud, er, get-out-the-vote effort. I'm going to give this one to Kerry, but this is another that I almost expect to go to Bush.

Oregon: Kerry. Coming home to Kerry, although Survey USA had Kerry by only 3 on Friday. Still, if the East Coast states look good for Bush (under my scenario, they don't), maybe the late-afternoon Democratic turnout is depressed and this one slips red. [UPDATE: My bad. This state votes entirely by mail.] So no late-afternoon effect.

Washington: Kerry. See Oregon, above.

Hawaii: Bush. I think this already-close state, which is usually ignored by the candidates, will be revved up about mattering this year, and the last-minute visit by Cheney will impress the remaining undecided and wavering voters. I also wonder if the state famous for Pearl Harbor may have a bit of a 9/11 effect like New Jersey. Under my scenario, Bush has won Ohio and Florida by late afternoon out in that time zone, and so Hawaii Democrats are depressed and the state's Republicans are enthused.

I can hear it now: Jim, you (and Obi-Wan) suggested the Osama tape could trigger a landside! You call 295-243 a landslide? Well, as I spelled out above, I wouldn't be surprised by a Bush win in New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, New Mexico, or Maine's Second Congressional District. So winning any or a couple of those could mean a bigger Bush victory.

Could I be wrong? Sure.

What you're hearing from me is probably pretty different from what you're hearing from other media sources.

I suspect part of this is that the cocooning instincts of the Left and the mainstream media (I know some will quibble with putting them in separate categories) are in full effect. We have seen the Left and the media disregard bad news for Kerry (Swift Boat Vets, Christmas in Cambodia, the "lucky hat," no bump from Boston convention, the conservative's winning the Australian election, the Afghan elections' succeeding and giving Bush a major foreign-policy triumph, Joe Wilson's being wrong about everything, almost anything Teresa has said lately, the Mary Cheney comment, improving economic numbers, grateful comments from Allawi) — and trumpet all kinds of good news for Democrats that didn't check out (Fahrenheit 9/11 would change Americans' opinions on the war, the missing-explosives-in-Iraq story, the CBS memo from Burkett, the antiwar anger that was going to carry Dean to the nomination, John Edwards's putting the South in play).

Now they're putting their faith in one last canard: Kerry's in a position to win this thing.

We will see if they remain as wrong on Tuesday as they have been all year.

by redjade Tue Nov 02, 2004 17:25

This post is for the Anarchoblog blogroll which is currently filled up with so-called “anarchists” who are blogging about voting and getting out the vote. Folks, you don’t belong on this blog roll. Voting and getting people out to vote aren’t anarchism. It’s liberalism. You folks are social democrats, so do us anarchists a favor and drop the anarchist pretenses. You just aren’t anarchist. You should have read some basic anarchist texts before you started throwing Circle-A graphics on your blogs. I know that you folks are people that I can work with, but your misrepresentation of anarchism is hurting us real anarchists. This isn’t a rant about “keeping it pure,” it’s about the BASICS of Anarchism 101. Every veteran anarchist I know, regardless of their flavor of anarchism, agrees with me on this voting stuff.

http://chuck.mahost.org/weblog/index.php?p=696

by votenader Tue Nov 02, 2004 17:34

Redjade, why do you support a candidate that supports the 'war on terror', will increase troops in Iraq, is against gay marriage rights, is against abolition of the death penalty, will not repeal anti union laws and will generally implement neo liberal policies at home?

Kerry is a candidate of big business and if elected will continue to implement a viscious imperialist foreign policy as well as a viscious war against ordinary people at home. He is no alternative for the American people. Nader is an anti corporate, anti war pro worker candidate that does represent a real alternative for American people.

by pollster Tue Nov 02, 2004 17:37

Has Kerry at 49% and Bush at 44% in Florida.

This poll is an unofficial exit poll that was reported on Fox News a couple of hours ago. Bush has been consistantly ahead on the national polls for the last few days and today. We could well see Bush winning the popular vote but Kerry wining on electoral votes.

by votenader Tue Nov 02, 2004 17:43

1 Nader’s 40-year record of fighting for Americans is well known
2 Nader is the most effective candidate in the race.
3 Nader would never allow activist conservative judges onto federal benches
4 A vote for Nader is a vote for the end of politics as usual.
5 Nader is the only candidate demanding health care for all.
6 Nader fights to save America’s family farms.
7 Ralph Nader is against the death penalty.
8 Nader stands against racial discrimination.
9 Nader stands against Taft-Hartley
10 Nader stands against the bloated Defense budget.
11 Nader stands against discrimination based on sexual preference.
12 Nader opposes genetically modified foods.
13 Nader supports a living wage.
14 Nader supports a crackdown on corporate crime.
15 Nader opposes corporate welfare.
16 Ralph Nader will fight for the abolition of child poverty in America.
17 Nader supports fair taxation.
18 Nader Supports the Protection of the National Forests
19 A vote for Nader is a vote of conscience.
20 Nader is not for sale.

by redjade Tue Nov 02, 2004 17:46

users of photoshop will know of the 'Clone Stamp Tool' - the icon that looks like a rubber stamp.

apparently the Bush campaign used this to doctor a photo used in one of their video ads to create a fake amount of US Troops in the background....

read more at
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/27/22442/878

Soviet Style Photography

by redjade Tue Nov 02, 2004 17:56

first, there are many bad things about kerry AND there are many good things about Kerry, no need to go into now at this late stage, but I will say that he has in the past confronted the CIA on its drug smuggling in the eighties - so, I'd say that he does have a clue about the pure dodgeyness of US foriegn policy.

and thats good enough for me.

second, I'm a idealist in the primaries and a pragmatist in the general election - that's how I see it.

We know what Bush will do in the next 4 years - he's told us, if you haven't been listening.

With Kerry there is a chance of ending this war. Note: I didn't say that he would, i just said there is a chance. and I believe that circumstances will force him to. The war is already over, the US lost - it is just a question of when the US leaves.

third, voting is not the only political activity worth doing. continuous protest and resistance between elections is also necessary.

therefore tactically and strategically the best option at the moment is Kerry.

I am not an ideologue, I'm sorry that I do not pass your purity test.

by votenader Tue Nov 02, 2004 18:13

Strategically it is not the best thing to back Kerry. The US anti war movement backing Kerry has made it impotent and will allow Kerry to step up imperialist foreign policies in the New Year. This is what happend in the past when the US anti war movement backed Lyndon B Johnson during the Vietnam war. LBJ like Kerry didn't support pulling out troops but was still backed as a 'lesser evil'. What happened when LBJ got into power? An escalation of the war with the Tet offensive and thousends more killed.

Kerry will not pull out troops from Iraq because Kerry is a capitalist politcian like Bush. It is not in the interests of US capitalism to pull out troops and suffer a humiliating defeat therefore Kerry will not do it. The only thing that will seriously challenge US imperialism and will get troops out is the ordinary working people of America and of Iraq rising up and challenging imperialism.
How does putting Kerry into the White House assist the US working class and the poeple of Iraq in ending the war? A vote for Nader is a vote against the war and it is a vote for building a movement to really challenge the roots of war and exploitation.

by redjade Tue Nov 02, 2004 18:21

funny you should mention Lyndon

if there is one candidate that would understand the mistake of LBJ and the disaster of the Viet Nam war it would be John Kerry, no?

On a personal-psychological level, I do not think Kerry wants to be remembered as 'another LBJ'

No Viet Nam veteran would.

by Noel Tue Nov 02, 2004 18:51

Did I read that one correctly?

Redjade's tiptoeing around the IT'S BECAUSE I HATE BUSH! response mentioned the US have lost the war?

A few thousand insurgents in a few pockets,
surrounded by the might of the US army!
When did the US marines run up the white flag?

Get real. This is no Vietnam.
The US have won the war, in fact, all too handily.
The brave car-bombing insurgents of today were the terrified runaway cowards of 18 months ago.

When President Bush is re-elected watch for the final act of this particular campaign.

And then it's on to Iran.

by redjade Wed Nov 03, 2004 03:45

Noel

me thinks you're dick cheney trolling indymedia - because he and rummy are the only ones on earth who think the US is winning this war.

by redjade Wed Nov 03, 2004 03:47

a word to the wise
http://www.livejournal.com/users/anniesj/331112.html

For all my LJ-loving friends, this is a word of warning, a word to the wise, and a word of utter exhaustion after the wringer I've been put through in the last twenty-four hours.

A couple of weeks ago, following the last presidential debate, I said some rather inflammatory things about George W. Bush in a public post in my LJ, done in a satirical style. We laughed, we ranted, we all said some things. I thought it was a fairly harmless (and rather obvious) attempt at humor in the face of annoyance, and while a couple of people were offended, as is typical behavior from me, I saw something shiny and forgot about it, thinking that the whole thing was over and done and nothing else would come of what I said.

I was wrong.

At 9:45 last night, the Secret Service showed up on my mother's front door to talk to me about what I said about the President, as what I said could apparently be misconstrued as a threat to his life. After about ten minutes of talking to me and my family, they quickly came to the conclusion that I was not a threat to national security (mostly because we are the least threatening people in the entire world) and told me that they would not recommend that any further action be taken with my case. However, I do now have a file with the FBI that includes my photograph, my e-mail address, and the location of my LJ. This will follow me around for the rest of my life, regardless of the fact that the Secret Service knows that I am not a threat.

by redjade Wed Nov 03, 2004 04:24

Phil Carter is not so optimistic as Noel.

Read: 'Are we winning? How do we know?'
http://inteldump.powerblogs.com/posts/1099343864.shtml

Who is Phil Carter?

''Phil Carter is a former Army officer who lives in Santa Monica, California and writes on military and legal affairs. 
[....]
Phil graduated from UCLA Law School in May 2004, where he developed an academic expertise in national security law and terrorism based on his prior military experience.''

Phil Carter's Bio:
http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~pcarter/about.htm

by righteous pragmatist Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:38

At the polls yesterday, the American people gave George W. Bush an unprecedented mandate to win the War on Terrorism. Even according to notorious election night “exit polling” – which appears to be Big Media’s last attempt to fix the race for the Left – the vast majority of voters considered terrorism the top issue this year, and “security voters” gave President Bush a lopsided advantage over the junior senator from Massachusetts.

With 96 percent of the nation’s precincts reporting as of this writing, George W. Bush had already received more than 57 million votes, more than any other candidate in electoral history. (Ronald Reagan won 54 million in 1984.) Although the popular vote was still being tabulated as of this writing, it appears George W. Bush will garner nearly 51 percent, making him the first president in 16 years to be elected by a majority of voters. This is the largest popular vote victory since his father won 54 percent of the vote against Michael Dukakis in 1988. (To put things in perspective, Ronald Reagan also won 51 percent of the vote in 1980. By contrast, Bill Clinton earned only 49 percent in his 1996 “landslide” victory over Bob Dole.)



Most importantly, last night the American people endorsed an aggressive, forward-looking policy of taking the War on Terrorism to the enemy. The race began with the Democrats flocking to Howard Dean’s antiwar message and ended with John Kerry promising a more effective effort to “hunt down and kill the terrorists wherever they may be.” Had he been elected, Kerry would have faced the same policy restrictions Bill Clinton did, undoubtedly with less grace and self-serving panache. With a hawkish American public and a Republican Congress, Kerry would “not even have the courage of his weakness.” The nation is better off not forcing an already indecisive candidate to develop political schizophrenia. We can now unite around a leader who has proven his unwavering resolve in the fires of political controversy.



A History Making Presidency


We are now embarking upon the second half of an historical presidency. Even at this early juncture, it is fair to say history will likely remember George W. Bush as a steadfast leader during a time of national peril, the right man at the right time.



His entire presidency to date has been one for the record books.



George W. Bush was the first presidential candidate ever to have his political opponents try to steal the election judicially – and nearly succeed. After an unprecedented 36-day recount, Bush became one of four presidents elected despite losing the popular vote count. (The last was Benjamin Harrison in 1888.)



Displaying the determination that would inspire his admirers and infuriate his enemies, he did not allow his confidence in his agenda to be shaken by leftist catcalls of “President Select” or Jesse Jackson’s charges of “illegitimacy” (a word choice soon revealed to be pregnant with irony). After dramatically reforming the tax code and passing the largest tax cut in history, he boldly asserted American interests by canceling the International Criminal Court, Anti-Ballistic Missile and Kyoto treaties – all over the vehement objection of the “international community” and the Democratic Party. Shortly thereafter, a gadfly Republican defection gave America only its second evenly divided Senate in history, the first in 120 years. The Democrats used this advantage to filibuster federal judicial nominees for the first time in history – a history that, sadly, is still playing out.



Then tragedy struck. For the first time since the War of 1812, a foreign enemy attacked Americans in their homeland. President Bush rallied Americans to the defenses, reversing a decade-long retreat in the face of terrorism. After a lightning-quick campaign (which, Charles Krauthammer has pointed out, was being called a quagmire during its second week), the new commander in chief destroyed the Taliban while bombing innocent Muslim children – with care packages donated by their American counterparts, at his behest.



Moving to protect the United States against the threat of Weapons of Mass Destruction, he gave Saddam Hussein an ultimatum: fully disclose the status of WMD program or face “serious consequences.” Stumping the nation with this message in 2002, President Bush became one of the few presidents in modern times to pick up Congressional seats during a midterm election, winning back control of the Senate.



He then overcame an international Oil-for-Food blackmail to launch a "unilateral" war aimed at…preserving the integrity of the United Nations. In the process, he endured an unprecedented level of hatred from his political enemies, receiving criticism from feminists for shutting down a regime that employed the rape and torture of women (and young girls) as tools of political repression. He has since liberated a second Muslim nation from the clutches of a madman.



With last month’s election of Mohammed Karzai, he brought democracy to Afghanistan for the first time in history. Next January, he will do the same for Iraq.



On the domestic front, after his second tax cut package took effect, Bush presided over the best economic gains in 20 years. He has since added 1.6 million new jobs to the economy, nearly canceling out the jobs lost during the Clinton recession and 9/11.



And with tonight’s election, he became the first “second generation” president ever to be re-elected president of the United States. (John Quincy Adams, the son of John Adams, and Benjamin Harrison, the grandson of William Henry Harrison, lost their re-election bids in 1828 and 1892, respectively.)



Already the force of his character has left an historic imprint upon his nation, and the quality of character cannot be overestimated. Recent times have shown us that events do not make the man. After 9/11, Bill Clinton publicly sulked that he faced no great crisis that would cement his legacy in perpetuity. Yet as president, he exploited the greatest act of domestic terrorism to that time for crass political advantage, blaming the Oklahoma City bombing on the “anti-government rhetoric” of his political opponents. Confronted by North Korea’s nuclear program, Red China’s saber rattling, and ever-more-ominous incidents of Islamic terrorism, he averted his ever-smiling gaze to more politically advantageous subjects. Even Hollywood leftist Rob Reiner caricatured his do-nothing, poll-tested presidency in the film The American President. Great men are self-made; Bill Clinton was not a great man.



If he continues to wage a successful and unrelenting war on America’s intractable foes, George W. Bush may prove to be. In the interim, we may rest assured we are in good hands.



A Time for Healing


With tonight’s resounding endorsement of George W. Bush and an aggressive war on terror, it is time for the nation to reunite from the fractious political battles of the past four years. After their bitter (and undeniable) defeat in the 2000 recount, leftists waged an endless political war, reaching heights of personal hatred not seen in 20th century America. Unlike the responsible opposition of the last fifty years, they proceeded to politicize a war, undermine troops in battle, and provide our terrorist foes with talking points in their blind hope of clawing their way back into power.



America has spoken, and America has rejected their destructive cynicism. Further contesting a hopeless race will only perpetuate the divisions of the past and prevent our needed national reconciliation. Voters have come together to protect their nation from the threat of suicide bombers who are convinced they are doing the will of Allah, and patriots from around the nation have selected the man who pledged to be most forthright in his defense of their families.



The Left may continue its unreasoning hatred of that man and his policies, but the American people stand united behind their president. We are ready to heal our divisions, secure our borders, and defend our freedoms.



It is time for the thoughtful Left to join us.

by redjade Wed Nov 03, 2004 14:06

'Don't Mourn, Organize'
by Meteor Blades
http://dailykos.com/story/2004/11/3/61013/0352

Why were we in this fight in the first place? Because terrible leaders are doing terrible things to our country and calling this wonderful. Because radical reactionaries are trying to impose their imperialist schemes on whoever they wish and calling this just. Because amoral oligarchs are determined to enhance their slice of the economic pie and calling this the natural order. Because flag-wrapped ideologues want to chop up civil liberties and call this security. Because myopians are in charge of America’s future.

We lost on 11/2. Came in second place in a crucial battle whose damage may still be felt decades from now. The despicable record of our foes makes our defeat good reason for disappointment and fear. Even without a mandate over the past four years, they have behaved ruthlessly at home and abroad, failing to listen to objections even from members of their own party. With the mandate of a 3.6-million vote margin, one can only imagine how far their arrogance will take them in their efforts to dismantle 70 years of social legislation and 50+ years of diplomacy.

[....]

Not a few people have spoken in the past few hours about an Americanist authoritarianism emerging out of the country’s current leadership. I think that’s not far-fetched. Fighting this requires that we stick together, not bashing each other, not fleeing or hiding or yielding to the temptation of behaving as if “what’s the use?”

It’s tough on the psyche to be beaten.Throughout our country’s history, abolitionists, suffragists, union organizers, anti-racists, antiwarriors, civil libertarians, feminists and gay rights activists have challenged the majority of Americans to take off their blinders. Each succeeded one way or another, but not overnight, and certainly not without serious setbacks.

After a decent interval of licking our wounds and pondering what might have been and where we went wrong, we need to spit out our despair and return – united - to battling those who have for the moment outmaneuvered us. Otherwise, we might just as well lie down in the street and let them flatten us with their schemes.

by redjade Wed Nov 03, 2004 15:06

On the plus side, we'll stop jerking around with the insurgents in Fallujah. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and CENTCOM won't have to worry any longer about delicate domestic sensibilities. Finally, they'll be free to do the killing -- and there's no nicer word for it -- that needs to be done there.

Another plus: The US just gained some serious negotiating strength with Iran's mullahs. And when I say "negotiating strength," I mean, "the increased threat of superior firepower." Iran stands to lose a lot of money, men, and material in Fallujah, too.

If Arafat lives and somehow manages to sneak back into his West Bank compound? So what. We still won't have a President in the White House willing to pressure the Israelis into providing more concessions to the murderous bastard. As an added benefit, Ariel Sharon will gain some added cover for his plan to pull fully out of Gaza over the next few years.

Pre-emption will remain a viable foreign policy option -- there will be no "global test" to give the UN a near-veto on American actions. France, Germany, and the rest of the Axis of Weasels will know that no matter how much they carp, they'll still have to deal with Bush for four more years

by redjade Wed Nov 03, 2004 15:11

So I “voted” today. Check the above image to see my ballot.

The Diebold machine it was fed to kept spitting out the ballot. The woman said it was a blank ballot and I asked whether I was allowed to cast a blank ballot or not. She said “yes", but she’d have to do an override. She popped out her keys, opened a compartment in the Diebold box, held down the “override” button, and after a couple tries it accepted my blank ballot. So much for secret voting, not that it matters here…

by :) Wed Nov 03, 2004 15:31

You sold out and backed the billionaire Kerry for what? he was a crap candidate and he couldn't even manage to beat the hated Bush. You're a sell out and I hope you felt terrible when it was announced that Bush took Ohio. I certainly did not, Bush = Kerry, Kerry= bush.

by redjade Wed Nov 03, 2004 16:11

Green Party candidate, David Cobb got 24 votes in Ohio.(1) Ralph Nader couldn't even get enough petitions signed to be placed on the ballot (not even with help from the Republican Party)

Nationally, Nader got 390,461 votes compared to the 113,136,043 votes cast for Bush and Kerry. (2) and David Cobb got 103,542 (2)

24 votes for Cobb in Ohio. You must be proud of that and I am sure that the now *elected* Bush Administration is happy too.

- - - - -
(1) http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/results/2004/gen/pres.htm
(as of 2:50pm Wednesday Dublin time)

(2) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/elections/2004/page/295001/
(as of 2:50pm Wednesday Dublin time)

by redjade Wed Nov 03, 2004 16:16

24 is a pathetic turn out for a presidential candidate by any standard, but....

especially when the Ohio Green Party website brags of 1,224 members!

http://www.ohiogreens.org/membership/index.html

by votenader Wed Nov 03, 2004 17:14

David Cobbs running mate, LaMarch, even said she wasn't going to vote or herself because she is in a 'swing' state. It just shows how pathetic the leadership of the Green Party is.

by peter Wed Nov 03, 2004 17:52

Even a serious discussion of the American green parties in the wake of a Bush victory is pathetic.

by eeekkk Wed Nov 03, 2004 20:32

"Whatever you want to call it, the undeniable truth is we live in an era that will be marked by a bold, military-led expansionism for American economic and political interests. Some call this ‘empire,’ which is fine. But let’s be clear. This is an empire by necessity, not by convenience nor divine right. With global resources shrinking and population expanding, it’s purely a matter of calculus. And somewhere, in some underground bunker, the true protectors of American national security are focused on charts and graphs that elaborate a future thirty and forty years from now. And they know that if the United States is going to secure a moderately First World future for its people, then difficult decisions will have to be made, now, to enable it. Decisions that freedom-loving American citizens do not have the realpolitikal fortitude to make. So they need to be taken out of the equation. Or, at least, out of the process of determining what elements factor into it. In other words, the electoral process. And for all the noise made by the progressive contingent of American society, the conservatives still dominate electoral politics. They know how to energize their base and get out the vote. It’s that simple. They use the media as political platform and weaponize it accordingly. "

by b-movie Wed Nov 03, 2004 22:37

What is it all about?

Country US$ per litre* (unleaded) (petrol)
* conversion: 1 U.S. gallon = 3.8 litres
UK 1.1760
Norway 1.1428
Finland 1.1096
Netherlands 1.0315
France 1.0057
Belgium 0.9883
Italy 0.9791
Sweden 0.9780
Denmark 0.9662
Germany 0.9307
Austria 0.8517
Ireland 0.8456
Hungary 0.8194
Portugal 0.7884
Switzerland 0.7716
Poland 0.7590
Luxembourg 0.7572
Greece 0.7440
Spain 0.7359
Czech Republic 0.7358
USA 0.3940

and

George W. Bush Resume

Past work experience:

Ran for congress and lost.

Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.

Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas, company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.

Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using tax-payer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox.

With fathers help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas.

Accomplishments: Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union. Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog ridden city in America. Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money. Set record for most executions by any Governor in American history.

Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my fathers appointments to the Supreme Court.

Accomplishments as president:

Attacked and took over two countries.

Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.

Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.

Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.

First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.

First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.

First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.

After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.

Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history.
...

by Splunk Wed Nov 03, 2004 22:42

" I hope you felt terrible when it was announced that Bush took Ohio. I certainly did not,"

And that's what it's all about isn't it, feeling good about yourself?

by redjade Thu Nov 04, 2004 14:06

Wallow In Chaos, And Laugh

A pro-Bush outcome and one enormous bitter pill and you without your vodka
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2004/11/03/notes110304.DTL&nl=fix

By Mark Morford

It simply boggles the mind: we've already had four years of some of the most appalling and abusive foreign and domestic policy in American history, some of the most well-documented atrocities ever wrought on the American populace and it's all combined with the biggest and most violently botched and grossly mismanaged war since Vietnam, and much of the nation still insists in living in a giant vat of utter blind faith, still insists on believing the man in the White House couldn't possibly be treating them like a dog treats a fire hydrant.

Inexplicable? Not really. People want to believe. They want to trust their leaders, even against all screaming, neon-lit evidence and stack upon stack of flagrant, impeachment-grade lie. They simply cannot allow that Dubya might really be an utter boob and that they are being treated like an abused, beaten housewife who keeps coming back for more, insisting her drunk husband didn't mean it, that she probably had it coming, that the cuts and bruises and blood and broken bones are all for her own good.

And this election, it might be all be very amusing, in a Mel Gibson-y, blood-drenched hamburger-of-Christ sorta way, were it not so sad and dangerous. It might all be tolerable and cute, in a violence-engorged, sexist, video-game-y sorta way, were it not so lopsided and wrong.

This election's outcome, this heartbreaking proof of a nation split more deeply and decisively than ever, it simply reinforces the feeling among much of the educated populace: It is a weirdly embarrassing time to be an American. It is jarring and oddly shattering and makes you rethink what it really means to be a part of this country. The answer: It doesn't mean much at all. Not really. Not anymore.

This is the common wisdom on the progressive Left. Those first four toxic Bush years? A fluke. A phantasm. A stolen election. A gaff, a mugging, a crime. But this? An election this close makes you reconsider. Maybe, after all, we aren't nearly as far along as we think. Maybe we're not all that sophisticated or nuanced or respectable a nation as we sometimes dare to dream.

by redjade Thu Nov 04, 2004 14:25

The global implications of the U.S. election are undeniable, but international monitors at a polling station in southern Florida said Tuesday that voting procedures being used in the extremely close contest fell short in many ways of the best global practices.

The observers said they had less access to polls than in Kazakhstan, that the electronic voting had fewer fail-safes than in Venezuela, that the ballots were not so simple as in the Republic of Georgia and that no other country had such a complex national election system.

"To be honest, monitoring elections in Serbia a few months ago was much simpler," said Konrad Olszewski, an election observer stationed in Miami by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. "They have one national election law and use the paper ballots I really prefer over any other system," Olszewski said.

[....]

"Unlike almost every other country in the world, there is not one national election today," said Gould, who has been involved in 90 election missions in 70 countries. "The decentralized system means that rules vary widely county by county, so there are actually more than 13,000 elections today."

by redjade Thu Nov 04, 2004 14:44

Hungary will withdraw its 300 troops from Iraq by the end of March, the country's new prime minister said Wednesday.

The announcement is a blow to President Bush's efforts to hold the coalition together despite increasing violence in Iraq. Hungarian officials said they delayed the announcement until after the U.S. presidential elections.

[....]

One Hungarian soldier has died in Iraq, killed when a roadside bomb exploded by the water-carrying convoy he was guarding.

Hungary on Wednesday abandoned its military draft system after 136 years. There are 21,304 non-U.S. troops from 28 nations in Iraq, augmenting the U.S. force of 138,000.

Other nations that have recently announced withdrawals include: Poland, with 2,350 troops; Italy, 3,000; the Netherlands, 1,300; Ukraine, 1,450, Norway, 300; New Zealand, 61; and Thailand, 880.

Previously, Spain, the Dominican Republic, Honduras, Nicaragua, the Philippines, the Czech Republic, Kazakhstan and El Salvador withdrew forces. New contributors to the force are South Korea and Tonga.

by redjade Thu Nov 04, 2004 14:56

Note: many of these counties were close elections and 55,384,497 people did vote for Kerry. still, its a pretty depressing map....

larger image
http://mwhodges.home.att.net/usmap-large.gif

.pdf file
http://alt.cimedia.com/ajc/pdf/elect_results_uscounty.pdf

by votenader Thu Nov 04, 2004 15:25

Pro Kerry people like 'redjade' need to do some serious sole searching.

Lesser of two evilsism is a dead end and only leads to defeat. The ruling class are completely incapable of defeating Bush. In order to defeat Bush a movement around a candidate needed to be built that would adress the concerns of working class people. With Kerry not calling for universal free healthcare, jobs for all, withdrawal from Iraq, increased welfare etc it meant millions of poor and working people stayed at home as the were unenthused for Kerry. The weakness of the democrats also allowed Bush take some more backwards working class votes with racist and homophobic rhetoric.

Becasue of this 'lesser of two evils' outlook the anti war movement in the US has been seriously set back with many previously good activists backing Kerry and as a result changing their position and arguing in favour of occupation. We also saw civil liberty groups support Democrats in their victimisation of Nader and other third candidates including arguing against the right of 3rd candidates to stand in elections.

With Bush re-elected and with the democrats completely incapable of having a real opposition it highlights the need for a new party of working people that would be capable of really opposing Bush and stopping his war in Iraq and war against ethnic minorities and poor at home.

by Voice of Reason Thu Nov 04, 2004 15:40

Dream on. The American working class prefer Bush. Its the much derided bourgeois who favour the likes of Kerry and Nader.

Compare the Irish Times and tabloids. One of them frequently features left-wing views on social issues, one of the is predominantly read by the upper-middle class, one of them is predominantly read by the "working class".

by redjade Thu Nov 04, 2004 15:42

yep, yer right - a lot of soul searching needs to be done - and by all.

i don't have any brilliant answers, sorry.

I have always liked Nader and probably agree with him on 98% of everything he has to say. But he doesn't offer any strategy nor tactics out of the current disaster.

Heck, he didn't even run with the Green Party this time! As for '3rd party building' - Nader didn't do that this time. And he didn't do much to condemn the Repubs when the Repubs helped him get on the ballot in many places - his only purpose was to syphon off Kerry votes, please search your own soul on that one.

So, if Nader is your thing - fine, if you like drinking the purple Kool-Aid and joining personality cults. But that aint no political movement then is it?

Nader is 70 years old now, he's not going to with us much longer - after he's gone, what personality-cult will you be joining next?

Secession: one solution

by votenader Thu Nov 04, 2004 15:56

I am not a big fan of Nader. I think the man has many flaws, for example I disagree with him on the question of the UN as well as taking the ballot lines of the Reform Party. I voted for and campaigned for Nader because of the movement he represents. Nader stood on a radical anti big business, anti war and pro workers program. He stood independently of the Democrats and the Republicans. I have no illusions in the democrats unlike you and some others. The democrats are a party of big business and are not a party of regular people. the US working class have been historically weak because of the lack of a mass party of the working class. Such a party urgently needs to be built if the US ruling class is to be defeated in its imperialist foreign policies - the democrats will not do this.

You claim that Nader has no solution to Iraq etc. This is bullshit! Nader calls for troops to withdraw from Iraq. Iraq will only be at peace if all imperialist troops withdraw. Kerry and you support the continued occupation and by extention the invasion of Iraq. How is this a solution?

by votenader Thu Nov 04, 2004 16:01

Nader is not a member of the Green Party but he did seek the nomination of the Greens this time. Unfortunately despite the overwhelming support among the ranks of the Greens the leadership undemocratically blocked Nader as they secumbed to the idiocy of your ABB logic.

by redjade Thu Nov 04, 2004 16:28

----You Say: 'Nader is not a member of the Green Party but he did seek the nomination of the Greens this time.'

Yes, further evidence that you're in a personality cult and that Nader is on a serious ego trip.

You talk about building a 'movement' but most in the progressive movement asked him to step out before Nov 2nd - deride those people as 'ABBers' if you like, but if you want to build a movement you have to also listen to those in that movement. Nader persisted anyway and allowed himself be a tool of the far-Right. For shame!

OK lets look at 'building a movement' that does NOT include progressive Democrats...

114,363,113 voted for Bush or Kerry

Add all the votes for Ralph Nader, David Cobb (Green), the two SWP Presidential candidates (2?!) and throw in Leonard Peltier's 21,616 just for shits and giggles and you get....

533,692 votes!!

Wow. Very impressive, Victory looks like our destiny, no doubt.

Numbers from: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/elections/2004/page/295001/

----You Say: 'You claim that Nader has no solution to Iraq etc'

I did not say this, you're projecting. I said 'he doesn't offer any strategy nor tactics out of the current disaster.'

There is more to this disaster than just Iraq.

For example: A President Nader would have no luck in appointing progressives into the 2 to 4 Supreme Court seats that will be available in the next 4 years. Why? Because, other than Bernie Sanders, ALL of Congress is Dems and Repubs.

If you want a 3rd Party, Nader did not build one this time. If you want to electorally change things you have to have votes in Congress. The only progressives in Congress are Democrats (Bernie too since he sits in their caucus).

----You Say: 'Such a party urgently needs to be built '

OK so build it. Each party spent probably nearly a half billion each on this election. Maybe I'll drop by your bake-sale fundraiser sometime and toss you a few quarters to help you out.

A more informative map

by for fecks sake Thu Nov 04, 2004 17:39

Nader hadn't a chance. Kerry tried to make himself electable but was beaten on social issues.
Maybe people dont know whats good for them, a bit patronising I suppose.
Lower income Americans seem to favour Bush for various reasons. We have to accept that.

by redjade Thu Nov 04, 2004 18:02

from BoingBoing.net

"I was thinking today about how the 'red v. blue' states graphic is really misleading considering the slim margins that the candidates won some of those states by, so I sat down and created the map that's attached. In the dozens of hours I've been watching the news I haven't seen one like it, but thought that you and the BoingBoing readers might find it interesting. I think it definitely portrays our fellow states far differently than the extreme way we've been seeing to date."

by pc Thu Nov 04, 2004 18:09

still pretty red

by pc Thu Nov 04, 2004 18:40

people have been out in the streets in various cities in america

post election breaking news
http://www.indybay.org/archives/archive_by_id.php?id=2596&category_id=18

plenty of good actions people gathering to look for hope, plenty of angry people,
plenty of arrest and violence by cops just for assembling though

check out

http://www.indymedia.us

by pc Thu Nov 04, 2004 18:51

scaremongering?

finger on the trigger?

by redjade Thu Nov 04, 2004 19:16

The Day the Enlightenment Went Out
By Gary Wills
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/04/opinion/04wills.html

The results bring to mind a visit the Dalai Lama made to Chicago not long ago. I was one of the people deputized to ask him questions on the stage at the Field Museum. He met with the interrogators beforehand and asked us to give him challenging questions, since he is too often greeted with deference or flattery.

The only one I could think of was: "If you could return to your country, what would you do to change it?" He said that he would disestablish his religion, since "America is the proper model." I later asked him if a pluralist society were possible without the Enlightenment. "Ah," he said. "That's the problem." He seemed to envy America its Enlightenment heritage.

Which raises the question: Can a people that believes more fervently in the Virgin Birth than in evolution still be called an Enlightened nation?

by redjade Thu Nov 04, 2004 19:43

[Federal Register: November 4, 2004 (Volume 69, Number 213)]
[Notices]
[Page 64353]
From the Federal Register Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov]
[DOCID:fr04no04-86]

SELECTIVE SERVICE SYSTEM

Computer Matching Between the Selective Service System and the
Department of Education

AGENCY: Selective Service System.

ACTION: Notice.

----------------------------------

link: http://cryptome.org/sss110404.txt

found at
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/4/122540/215

by redjade Thu Nov 04, 2004 20:05

What characterizes states that vote for George W. Bush?

An analysis of voting patterns reveals that their populations tend to:
1. Lack a college education
2. Be White
3. Be obese
4. Shop at Walmart

When racial makeup, education, obesity, and Walmarts are all included in a multiple regression, race (b=0.225; t(49)=2.118; p

includes Michael Moore, too ;-)

by Righteous pragmatist Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:30

You don't know your guns be boy.
That helmeted and flak jacketed police officers is armed with a 5.56mm M16A2 automatic rifle which uses a 30-round magazine.
It's not a machine gun.

Get your facts straight!

by a joke Fri Nov 05, 2004 15:07

I think it was the comedian George Carlin that said:

Guns don't kill people

bullets kill people.

Guns just make bullets go really really fast.

-

so what's your point Righteous? that bringing guns to threaten non-violent anti-Bush protesters is not a big deal? and that 30-rounds is less threatening (or less killing) than 31-rounds?

america is becoming a theocratic fascist state - and now its a democratically elected theocratic fascist state.

by righteous pragmatist Fri Nov 05, 2004 15:15

"a democratically elected theocratic fascist state"

To quote B.A from The A Team:

SHUT UP YOU CRAZY FOOL!

by redjade Fri Nov 05, 2004 15:35

http://www.sorryeverybody.com/

sorry.

by redjade Fri Nov 05, 2004 15:56

Disappointment...

Well, what is there to say? Disappointment doesn't even begin to describe it...

To the red states (and those who voted for Bush): You deserve no better- I couldn't wish worse on you if I tried. He represents you perfectly... and red really is your color. It's the color of the blood of thousands of Iraqis and by the time this four-year catastrophe in the White House is over, tousands of Americans, likely.

To the blue states (and those who were thinking when they voted): Condolences. Good luck- you'll need it.

by redjade Fri Nov 05, 2004 16:02

Larger Map
http://www.mousemusings.com/images/map_nowvsthen.jpg

- - - - -

also:
Some Bush Supporters Say They Anticipate a 'Revolution'
New York Times
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1104-04.htm

Exulting in their electoral victories, President Bush's conservative supporters immediately turned to staking out mandates for an ambitious agenda of long-cherished goals, including privatizing Social Security, banning same-sex marriage, remaking the Supreme Court and overturning the court's decisions in support of abortion rights.

"Now comes the revolution," Richard Viguerie, the dean of conservative direct mail, told about a dozen fellow movement stalwarts gathered around a television here, tallying up their Senate seats in the earliest hours of the morning. "If you don't implement a conservative agenda now, when do you?"

[....]

Dr. Dobson said he told the caller that many Christians believed the country "on the verge of self-destruction" as it abandoned traditional family roles. He argued that "through prayer and the involvement of millions of evangelicals, and mainline Protestants and Catholics, God has given us a reprieve."

"But I believe it is a short reprieve," he continued, adding that conservatives now had four years to pass an amendment banning same-sex marriage, to stop abortion and embryonic stem-cell research, and most of all to remake the Supreme Court. "I believe that the Bush administration now needs to be more aggressive in pursuing those values, and if they don't do it I believe they will pay a price in four years," he said.

the more things change the more they stay the same....

by JeBush Christ - God's Army Fri Nov 05, 2004 16:33 god at whitehouse dot com Jesusland 666-666-666

"I'm back" - JeBush Christ

by Noel Fri Nov 05, 2004 17:15

Bless you my son

by redjade Fri Nov 05, 2004 18:27

more by Zoltan Grossman maps at
http://www.counterpunch.com/grossman11042004.html

and
http://www.uwec.edu/grossmzc/zoltanmaps.html

kinda like that scene in The Day After Tomorrow, only going north....

by Jon Stewart Fri Nov 05, 2004 19:19

Post Election Daily Show
Quicktime Video 7.5MB

http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/001662.html

by redjade Fri Nov 05, 2004 19:34

Computer error at voting machine gives Bush 3,893 extra votes

Associated Press

COLUMBUS, Ohio - A computer error with a voting machine cartridge gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in a Gahanna precinct.

Franklin County's unofficial results gave Bush 4,258 votes to Democratic challenger John Kerry's 260 votes in Precinct 1B. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/news/state/10103910.htm
username: nobody@bugmenot.com
password: leavemealone

by redjade Fri Nov 05, 2004 20:00

JACKSONVILLE, N.C. - More than 4,500 votes have been lost in one North Carolina county because officials believed a computer that stored ballots electronically could hold more data than it did. Scattered other problems may change results in races around the state.

by redjade Fri Nov 05, 2004 20:11

ChuckO can suck it
http://www.davidgrenier.com/000304.html

ChuckO went on another of his "abstinence only" rants [ http://chuck.mahost.org/weblog/index.php?p=696 ] and claimed that I am not an anarchist but a social democrat because I advocate voting in addition to direct action and community organizing.

[....]

So I'm a "social democrat" according to ChuckO because I don't subscribe to his ridiculous idea that if you vote, ever, you can't ever do anything else. That once you vote you renounce direct action. It's like saying that if you organize a union in your workplace you're a Capitalist because you are accepting some form of employment rather than going out and building a workers coop....

by Anthony Fri Nov 05, 2004 23:06

Sorry, redjade but I think that's a very badly written article. ChuckO wrote a fairly short and succinct piece stating that not voting is one of the basic essentials of what anarchism is. He further clarifies his personal position later on in the comments section.

Mr Grenier seemed to take that post personally and responded with ad hominem attacks. Most of the rest of the article grossly misrepresents ChuckO's position by creating a straw man argument: "if you vote, ever, you can't ever do anything else" which obviously isn't true.

He seems to have a problem with being called a social democrat. I'm not sure why. There's nothing great about being an anarchist and there's no shame in being a social democrat. Many people I know are social democrats. For someone who wants to make the world a better place, it's not an irrational position to take. And it doesn't mean that you stop participating in DA or engaging with grassroots, community and labour groups in a non-hierarchical way. Most of the social democrats whom I know personally would much prefer it if more ordinary people were engaged in political self-activity. (For what it's worth, they also happen to be people with nothing to gain from the perpetuation of the status quo.)

The simple fact is that if you start calling people who mandate someone else to rule over them "anarchists", then the word loses all meaning and anarchists would be left to find a new word to describe their political philosophy despite the fact that anti-electoralism has been synonymous with anarchism for the past 150 years or so.

This kind of reminds me of those who believe that humans should be free to exploit others in hierarchical relationships calling themselves anarchists. Just because they oppose government and believed in limiting state power, they think it enough to consider themselves anarchists while at the same time rejecting all other anarchist principles and ideas. (Though it should be noted that some flavours of social democracy and some flavours of anarchism will have a lot more in common with each other than free-market "libertarians" and anarchists will ever have.)

by redjade Sat Nov 06, 2004 14:00

I have been watching the meta-blog of anarchist blogs at http://anarchoblogs.protest.net/ for a while now - It's a good blog to watch.

and Chuck0 is correct, if anarchists are anti-elections then why were so many american anarchists voting for Kerry? I agree with Chuck0 that it kinda violates the basics of what anarchism is - if anarchism has rules, then this is one of those rules.

so, adding the text from Grenier's site was to further report on that debate.

and as there has been a lot of debate about voting nader or creating a 3rd party and so on as well - all of this adds up to the larger question of what are US progressives supposed to do in times like these?

I like Granier's statement of opposing the idea 'That once you vote you renounce direct action.'

I do not like ideological rigidity anywhere - left or right. seems like self-imposed blinders to me.

voting is nothing more than a tactic, one tool in the tool box. I wouldn't even argue that it is a powerful or empowering tool, but just one tool among others that activists can use. I think that's where Granier is coming from.

yes there is much more debate that follows Granier's rant and it is well worth reading.... http://www.davidgrenier.com/000304.html

by redjade Sat Nov 06, 2004 15:49

By Frank Pastore

The left bewitches with its potions and elixirs, served daily in its strongholds of academe, Hollywood and old media. It vomits upon the morals, values and traditions we hold sacred: God, family and country. As we learned Tuesday, it is clear the left holds the majority of Americans, the majority of us, in contempt.

[....]

The nation has now resoundingly rejected the left and its agenda. We do not want to become European. We do not want to become socialist. We do not want to become secular. We are exceptional. We are unique. And we are the greatest force for good in the world, despite what the left, the terrorists or the United Nations may claim. It is for these reasons that we remain the last great hope in the world for freedom.

We continue to be that shining city set on a hill. And we fully accept the responsibility; we are proud to be the envy of the world.
--
Former major league pitcher Frank Pastore is the afternoon host on the Christian talk-radio station KKLA, 99.5 FM

by Bodhisattva Sat Nov 06, 2004 21:04

A great election for the American Christian right, no? Now they can get a new round of the tax cuts that Jesus always went on about:
"Blessed are those in the top two quintiles, theirs is the Kingdom of Mammon."
into the fires of hell ,meanwhile, go the non-believers, the socialists, the sodomisers, the abortionists, the idle poor, all those who Jesus carped on about, let me see, NEVER.
Pastore is as Christian as Dick Cheney is socialist.

by Bushwhacked Sat Nov 06, 2004 23:32

well actually Bush does'nt rule try Rummy,Wolfy or Perly or even Rove the ventriloquist in fact anyone in the administration apart from the educationally subnormal dipso himself.
the good thing is that nobody has to 'fuck with America' it is quite capable of shafting itself it is heading toward economic stagnation, international isolation and humiliation when it gets its ass kicked out of Iraq. the moronic redneck good ol boys who actually believe that the ills of Fallujah would be resolved if it had a Burger King may soon find a different kind of flame grilling ahead.
dont fuck with most of the rest of the world.

by wookie monster Tue Nov 09, 2004 15:29

Who is Sen. John Kerry if not Sen. Jar Jar Binks, the bumbling guerilla war veteran who foolishly voted to give Palpatine a blank check for War and ending democracy? Kerry's $87 billion vote, Patriot Act support and Authorization of Force will haunt him forever, just as the well-meaning but annoying Jar Jar was forever shamed by his Senate motion granting emergency powers to Supreme Chancellor Palpatine.