APC intimidation at Shannon - Army withdrew from 'Ambush'. Delaying Bush a victory for us all!

by Ex peacenik Fri Jul 02, 2004 00:03

600 were in shannon 10,000 in dublin.Around the country about 16,000.Pretty fuckin pathetic!! 3.5 million in Ireland 16000 equals about 0.001 of the pouplation.So where was this"overwhelming support for the anti war groups???"As was the demo in Shannon.We were wrong footed at the airport.Bush left avoiding most of the demo at the main enterance.If we delayed him by a half hour..So what???Was Dubya frothing and stamping around Dromoland biting the carpets?Hardly.We actually only delayed the press corps,and that was more to the Keystone cops AKA the Gardai.
It is a bad state of affairs when we claim a half hour delay as a great victory.Even worse if we belive our own propaganda.I am going to quit and become a neocon.At least they get things done .Pissup and brewery spring to mind about usanti war folk in ireland.

by Devil Dog Fri Jul 02, 2004 02:44

Henry Allen,

1. If you think inconveniencing the press for 30 minutes is a victory then that only goes to show what an utterly pathetic bunch of incompetent losers the anti-US/anti-War movement in Ireland really is.

2. You claim that the protestors are the courageous ones - if you feel so strongly about the US being in Afghanistan & Iraq, why not take a leaf out of the left-wingers of the 1930's who went to Spain and fly off to Fallujah, pick up an AK and join the Iraqi "resistance"?

3. Don't denigrate the troops who serve - they're prepared to give their lives to defend you and your right to exhibit your ludicrous anti-American prejudices.

by ... Fri Jul 02, 2004 04:24

To show pretty pictures of people in control and being powerfull and decisive in really photogenic locations.

So we got Bush in his underwear.

And RTE radios highest rated serious news programme reporting stuck in a bus on the way to Shannon - with Bush, Blair, Bertie and all the Masters of the universe sitting waiting.

We got theatre and protest and army - but even that wasn't dispiriting because the APC's have anti Bush posters in the pictures.

I think this particular netwar saw a victory for the spirit of fun and resistance - not the men in (or out of) suits.

And to our military friends - go on, wasn't it fun.

by G Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:49

Im glad someone brought that up; the spectre of state fascism in europe was not defeated by having symbolic marches, and generally having a good ole time of it in the summer sunshine, thats true.
it was in fact defeated by laying down ones life for the lives of others.
There are only a bare handful of people in the mass movement who are willing to risk anything more than having to give up some free time... I am not pontificating, i too have never had to make any sacrifice to make this world a better place, and i dont see myself going over to Iraq or darfur any day soon to take up arms or even help out in a hospital.
But do we all really believe that having a nice day out in Dublin/Shannon/Galway is going to have the kind of impact that has only ever been achieved in our history by the ultimate sacrifice.

by Canteen Kevin Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:53

"Ex peacenik" "Neo-con" "Devil Dog" great to see that the anti-Bush protest has pissed these gobshites off so that they/he/she posted such a pathetic attempt to posture as an "ex-peacenik" converted and welcomed to the "winning team". You right wing twats

By any yardstick the anti-Bush protests were successful. The worlds corporate media covered the protests and the "security operation" was shown to be the usual ridiculous knee jerk jack booted response that seems to be the usual response of this PDFF junta to dissent in this country.

"ex-peacenik" sneering pre-infantile logic is that that only 16000 people joined the protest and therefore only 0.001% of the population were anti-Bush. How many people came out to welcome Bush then,? I make it zero which would give a 16,000 - 0 result. Pretty comprehensive victory.

P.S Victory to the Iraqi resistance!

by historian Fri Jul 02, 2004 13:47

So how come you didn't support the Irish resistance then Kev?

by i know Fri Jul 02, 2004 17:25

This guy is right the war in northern ireland is very similar to that in iraq or palistine but people wont support a cause at home because its not romantic the shit that is happening in the middle east is the same as northern ireland two religious grops fighting against each other, are the palistinans who are fighting for religious and civil liberties not the same as the catholics who are fighting for the exact same thing?

by Paddy X Fri Jul 02, 2004 17:33

Great work and a great protest. All those S.F. and Labour and Greens, and socialists should be proud. It was a great protest against Anglo-American imperialism in Iraq. As Eamonn McCann said this is the most important problem confronting the Irish people. In the meantime Bush's imperial envoy , Reiss, goes about his job of integrating Ireland, North and South, into the Anglo-American imperium. And not a peep of protest from the long-distance revolutionaries. Great job!

by Me Fri Jul 02, 2004 17:33

Since the referendum on the GFA, things are not the same.

by Doug Weaver Fri Jul 02, 2004 19:00 Halifax,NS, Canada

" For evil to flourish requires only that good men do nothing.", not original but apt.
Bush has total disregard for the UN & the Geneva Conventions. Now, that the "9-11 Commission" has brought down their findings, there is futher proof that Bush"s invasion of Iraq is without justification. I agree Saddam was a real tyrant, but the US & UK should have thought of that when they secured his hold on the country.
Anyway, I digress. To inconvience a "sacred cow', is noteworthy. A lot of your protests were given very favourable coverage here on the CBC. Great show, and as for the number that showed up, you may not have had quantity, but you had quality. THANKS

by D.Weaver Fri Jul 02, 2004 19:52

Going over some of the posts on this thread has me a bit confused. The way i understand it, away back, when England was RC, some pope decided to cede Ireland to the English king. And as we are aware, the oppession of the native people began and was horrendeous. Ok, in 1948, the US coerced the UN into creating the state of Israel, thereby displacing the resident people, the Arabs(i.e.Palistinians)
In both cases, someone who had no right, gave something they did not own, to someone who did not deserve it. We have said that the resulting struggles had to do with religion. Killing for God, sort of like shagging for virginity. Let's face it, these are occupation issues, not religious. And quite justifiable, although I do not agree with the way the terrorists , either IRA or Arabic act, I equally do not support the terrorism as done by Israel or the UK. So I will mind my own business there for now.
Iraq is an entirely different story. The US & coalition forces invaded a sovereign country, against the UN.
The people fighting against the occupation are without a centralized leadership, so it is easy to dismiss them as rabble, as oppossed to being an army. It's the same type of warfare that took place in Afghanistan against the USSR. Only then, the west considered them heroic freedom fighters.
Sorry but it's the same old-same old. Check out "PNAC" on Google and you will understand that this invasion is to secure Iraqi oil and for no other reason. It will be interesting to see if Saddam will live long enough to expose the US/UK complicity in his tyranny. Also, for the US to say they want to bring democracy to Iraq is pathetic. Think Chile,Iran ,Argentina, Nicaragua, El Salvador & the list goes on.

by Ex peacenik Fri Jul 02, 2004 21:50

If no one came out to welcome Bush,maybe it was the actual FACT that they didnt turn up or were actually doing somthing worthwhile.Like working to keep themselves in house and home and alive in this society.[should try it somtime.]How many people are employed in Us companies here?It would have a easy thing for them and more effective to refuse to work for two days in protest>NOT ONEOF THEM DID THAT!!!! Maybe that will show you that most people SUPPORT the USA,and it is only us deluded lot who jumped up and down like rabid apes at the airport.
So maybe the visit was in 100%supported by the Irish people.A great defeat for us,the anti war types.
Anyway another thing that pisses me off here with the anti war thing in general .There is so much bitching and infighting between the SWP and the IWAM and the rest that the anti war thing in Ireland will get absolutely NOWHERE.Is there anyone here willing to go out to Iraq and help the resistance or we just going to spend our time in self congratulory Bullshit about delaying Dubya for a half hour???Big fuckin deal
we are all great at talking in Ireland but when push comes to shove...talk talk talk,split blame game, no action.
Wake up and smell the coffee.We had a major chance and it was FUCKED UP by those who were supposed to lead it,by their own petty ego trips.

by Slarti - (current peacenik) Fri Jul 02, 2004 22:47

"How many people are employed in Us companies here? It would have a easy thing for them and more effective to refuse to work for two days in protest" Are you actually suggesting that it would've been easier (or even in any way "easy") for people to go on unofficial strike for two days (with zero support from union heirarchies, etc.) than to go on a march on Saturday? Not true (at least not for values of "easy" less than "horrendously difficult", "losing your job", etc.)

Also, I don't know how many people are employed in "US" companies as the figures given tend to include a lot of companies which are blatently multinations. They go whereever they'll make money and leave when they find somewhere more profitable. They contribute to politicians all over the world (probably including FF/PD via "Irish" subsidiaries). They're here because it makes economic sense to be (lots of tax breaks combined with a skilled, workforce, convenient location, etc.) and they'll leave if somewhere else offers them the chance to make more money (and stay until then) whatever we say about Bush.

"We had a major chance and it was FUCKED UP by those who were supposed to lead it" Ah yes, those divinely appointed "leaders". Leaving that aside, exactly how would you have got closer to Bush? We knew it was extremely unlikely we'd actually see him, let alone get to stop him, but we managed (with the help of a small slice of luck admitedly) to delay him anyway. I'd count that as a result. Could we have done more? Probably. Does that make what did pointless? No.

by Ex peacenik Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:36

developed "Bush flu" for two days in protest.Ecnomic protests will get the message quicker to DC than any placard raving and waving rabble.Especially in multinationals
What happened to all those ground handling staff who were so "opposed to maintaining the US war machine at Shannon"It would have been brilliant time to have taken off sick.Or was the money too good?Either you have principles or you dont.
Where or what was the great collective AKA trade unions actually doing when Bush was here?I was under the impression that unions are supposed to stick up for workers rights and political opinions.Mmmmm well maybe not in Ireland.
They all impress me as being Me feiners more concerned in the cushy office number rather than going out to repersent their fee paying union members.

What could we have done better to get closer to Bush?
1]Sort out actually WHO is going to lead the anti war movement in Ireland.Who is the cheif and who are the indians.It looks really stupid [and Irish ]with 10k in Dublin protesting 150 miles away from the main target,they might as well be on the moon for all that matterd.While 600 are protesting a mile from the main target and are being left footed all along the way.
2]Quit beliving our own propaganda.We inconvienced the press corps,not Bush.Again it actually was the Gardai who caused this not the anti war crowd.Bush was in no rush to catch a plane anywhere.Airforce one wasnt going to fly off without him.Do you not think the security plan would have such inbuilt contingencies for such a occurance?
3]Have alternative plans.AKA THINK
Did we ACTUALLY think that the presidential convoy was going to drive thru a placard waving crowd?The convoy left a side gate to Dromoland[logical].by the time anyone could have gotten over there with the road blocks etc it would have been too late.Why didnt anyone think of stationing a squad near the traveller encampment on the old Shannon Ennis road? this is what i refer to about leadership and tactics.NONE
Of course all will slate this as being facist,anti freedom,anti simeultanous blahblah yadayada.
But it boils down to this people.Unless we get our shit together here in Ireland the collective IAWM is not going anywhere,and we will spend our time congrautulating ourselves on "great victories" of half hour delays,getting ourselves arrested for boating on the Shannon,or denting aircraft and claiming we decomissioned them.And getting ourselves arrested.What good are you in the nick??You are more use on the streets doing somthing.It impresses me as being the anti war kamakasie attack,get yourself arrested,a record and pig security 24/7 when somthing good is going to happen

Until somthing is properly organised with some people who are willing to bell the cat.This whole "anti war,pro talking,not doing much else"operation is just a large joke.

by Canteen Supporter of Irish Reistance Kevin Mon Jul 05, 2004 13:17

How many pseudonyms is that you've posted under now "Ex peacenik" "Neo-con" "Devil Dog" ?
So nobody came out to cead mile failte Bush because they were all working unlike us who should "try working sometime" I thought you were "going to quit and become a neocon" or is it join the Iraqi resistance? I'm sure that is a throwback like yourself's dream, get all the liberals, peaceniks and commies to head off to Iraq

Some of your rant includes; We (anti-Bush protestors) are "placard raving and waving rabble" "most people SUPPORT the USA,and it is only us deluded lot who jumped up and down like rabid apes at the airport." Rabble and apes eh?, even when covertly trolling you can't keep your obnoxiousness from seeping through.

So Fugh off troll, it's still 16,000 - 0.

by Ex peacenik Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:06

Well the truth hurts doesnt it "Teenie "Kevin.?Because that is what you show yourself up as .A retarded moronic snivelling little gobshite teen.You argue like one deluded sixteen year old.
Why dont you try staying on subject and come up a rational counter arguement?Instead you act like a kid and accuse me of being a troll.
Got any proof of that?Fact is its 2millionplus[irish citzens who didnt bother marching or protesting] to 16000[anti war rabble]. No sane person is deluded by the propaganda you swallowed whole..
Yeah as i said i would be better heading off to Iraq .They are fighting for their rights,instead of sitting on their arses talking or waving placards.Or become a neocon ,they are organised ,making money and dont even consider the left as a problem and having fun at it.
So grow up you pathetic little sad person.

Never argue with idiots.They drag you down to their level and then beat you by experiance.

Somthing we really should keep in mind when dealing with simpletons like "Cant Teenie" Kevin

by Devil Dog Thu Jul 08, 2004 04:50

I post under this username and no others - that's when my posts aren't being deleted - it's ok to post on this site in favor of the IRA, OBL, Trotsky, Palestinian terrorists and God knows how many loo-lah conspiracy theories but a bit of right-wing counter points and it's "delete"....are you sure you guys are Trots and not Stalinists?

You can't really complain about someone name calling when you describe people as "right-wing twats" & "gobshites".....hmmm, that really helps your point.

As for supporting the Irish resistance - don't make me laugh - I have no doubt you're a cardboard soldier from somewhere nice and safe down south - either way, you're a Provo supporter so FOAD.....

by Lt Wed Jul 21, 2004 19:06

For god sake, wake up and smell the coffee. Come on people this is the real world. So what you stopped a Mowag, the person driving it is sworn to protect this state and its citizens so if ye stand in front of it he's NOT going to run ye over. War isn't a nice thing but it happens. Instead of bashing down people in the Defence Forces why not give them some praise for all the peace keeping they have done over the years. give support to them!!

You crustys have no national pride and no self pride. Go do something useful for a change and make a real difference. Thats what people in the defence froces do everyday.