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The end of the Progressive Democrats

category national | elections / politics | opinion/analysis author Dé Domhnaigh Meitheamh 13, 2004 14:54author by o as if Report this post to the editors

With 1st preference votes counted it has become clear that the Progressive Democrats have lost.

little more than 3% of first preference votes in the Irish municipal authority elections have gone to the Progressive Democrats.

This means the party may now properly be described as a fringe right group, and one may honestly wonder how they ever came to sit in Government. The effects of their peculiar blend of snobbery, self-satisfaction, greed and neo-liberal soundbyte will not so easily be lost, but one thing has become clear-
You may not offer good governance to Ireland without several of the "residual constituencies" representing the different socio-economic and cultural groups that make our nation in all it's diversity.
These are the various parties of the Left, as vocalised here on indymedia, the republicans, and let us be honest the residual constituency of Fine Gael.

You may offer good governance to Ireland without the Progressive Democrats.

Ireland needs neither the PDs in government or opposition. In short we don't need them @ all.

It is my opinion that good governance will someday be offered Ireland when the PDs are a but curious and anomolous memory of late XXcentury Irish political development, and eventually they will be historiagraphised as a rightwing splinter group of the FF national state machine. Today's results are good for the Left for true Liberals and for those who need effective councils in Ireland.
We can also be happy with the referendum vote, which saw our combined campaigns garner almost 21% of polled votes. That is seven times the first preference votes of the PD party.


:-) fair play to ye. Next project for the General Elections- ending the PDs, continuing the left split of FF, bringing the Greens to the left, and of course securing the Leftist trotty voters and the needs of their constituents. (fair play Joe Higgins! you got Cork and Fingal is yours).

Bertie wants to go into opposition in 2005.
Let's make it so.

author by fingallianpublication date Déar Meith 17, 2004 19:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Possibly the PDs are growing in places where middle class voters see them as the alternative to SF, especialaly where SF have elected reps.

author by Jason Calonpublication date Déar Meith 17, 2004 19:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The problem is not only has their vote gone up by 1 % but they seem to have won these votes in traditional working class areas.

600 votes in tallaght, 1000 votes in Finglas, 1600 votes in clondalkin.

they seem to be getting braver, running in new areas, which has to be crushed for fuck sake how did they get votes in areas like this

author by cabaistepublication date Déar Meith 17, 2004 14:04author address author phone Report this post to the editors

the SP have achieved a heartland. They have built well on their anti Bin Tax campaign and the imprisonment of their activists.
They did not enter the election with the declared hope of doubling their representation, and they come from an ideologically very different psychological background.
Well done Joe Higgins and Co! olé!
I am pretty sure, they are secure, and I thought so last year, the BinTax secured Fingal for the trots, and contained them as well.
They are different from the PDs in which they realise the limitation of their appeal and are willing and capable of operation within those limits.
The PDs are different, they achieved their governing status on the basis of being perceived as "leading" FF policy. They don't have a heartland, and oddly enough without FF they are irrelevant. They punched well above their weight, yes, but it now transpires in "popular opinion" they were mostly punching their senior partners in the Coalition.

the SP are relevant, annoying trots yeah, but their role in "punching above their weight" is vital to the re-alingment of the Left in Irish politics. And the Right is doing exactly what was expected to do, the proof of the modeling is almost boring even down to the YFG ogras.

which is what we are doing "reshaping the Left of Europe", impossible without old style bolsheviks, and impossible without new style libertarians who don't vote.
space for everyone. remember-
green white black and red.

author by Cabhogpublication date Déar Meith 17, 2004 13:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

doesn't that mean that those parties such as the Socialist Party are also finished?

After all, there are far more Progressive Democrat councillors out there, than there are Socialists.

So can we see a picture of a grey Joe Higgins poster in the style of a failed Communist leader of the 1970s?

Sorry, I forgot, that was the election poster

author by -publication date Céad Meith 16, 2004 18:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors

are of the opinion that FF ought abandon the co-alition with the PDs.
at present the division is 60% to 30something%.
Ha ha ha. Mikey. "my garda bill".
HA ha ha. Parlin "my county".
Ha ha ha. Mammy "my celtic tiger".

You are as a ruling party quite finished now, the backbenchers of FF will never trust you again in coalition, and FG know that they can only acheive a "come-back" at your expense.
The poison has been poured into the wound, and now gangerous growth will secure your amputation. "that's politics".

author by iosafpublication date Céad Meith 16, 2004 11:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

is an example of peurile personality politics in the age of the soundbyte, when major decision are made on the basis of TV bolstered mass appeal.
Is that a good enough reason to want to see the end of her? I reckon it is, we are all wise to the imperial ways of Kapital, we all know that even if offered the choice of electing an Allende tomorrow, nothing would change. We have made such wonderful progress that electing an Allende wouldn't even merit a coup. But that mythical Allende would be so hamstrung that he could achieve little.
Therefore our nation-state governments are cosmetic, and almost unnecessary to proper geo-political decision making.
Time to accept it. Time to say, NO MORE MAMMY HARNEY TYPES! If a career in nation-state politics is so pointless, then at least shuffle the mediocre representatives as often as possible, may we never get bored of the same shower of ineffectual apologists ever again. It has long been a priniciple of anarcho-syndicalist organisation that a "office holder" may not hold that offfice for long, that they must always rotate and be replaced. So it should be with these types.
This is extremely important for communicating to our youngest the role of political leadership in the XXI century. THey need to see the end of such farcical politicians. They need to learn that these jobs are very well paid, come with excellent perks, but at end are filled with meaningless pomp and splendour and only guarantee increased recognition to some.
I've no problem with Parlon being PD leader, just as long as he doesn't go proclaim his usefulness to the nation sitting for seven years drawing inequitable and unjustifiable salaries for the privelage.

As for the poorest classes being able to enjoy a sun drenched holiday and even the most humblest being able to get away for a weekend as the main justification for mass marketing of commerical air transport, oh well if it helps their vitamin D deficiency ¿who am I to object?
I'm iosaf - object away lad - it's bloomsday-

It's ecologically unsustainable- Air pollution messes with the higher atmosphere more than car use.
it's culturally unsustainable- Global Tourism is not a proven model for sustainable or equitable development rather to the contrary it is associated with urban speculation, division of host communties which prompts extreme rightwing reaction, and it despoils huge areas of land previously used in a more gainful way.

If we lived in a meritocracy, then we wouldn't have to listen to such gobshites for so long.
Is it really so difficult a job to do? No it isn't.
And no-one has yet proved that doing the job for another four years, makes any improvement or secures any of the promises the poor voter is asked to support.
Besides constantly changing the faces in government as well as helping the youngsters get used to the farce they must grow up in, will help create an egalitarian society by reminding _all_ that this type of work really is very easy to do.

Mammy Harney go away now!
You've had your seven years.


author by Sir Anthonypublication date Céad Meith 16, 2004 09:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

However, the fat cat capitalist class is licking its lips ....

We made a killing on Telecom and with the sort of corrupt weak-kneed big-business-compliant politician typical of the Irish Republic, we're hoping to repeat the performance ...... many times over ......

After all with our chauffered limos we don't really need an efficient public transport service .... what we really need is a new scam to feed our insatiable thirst for PROFIT .....

author by chris bondpublication date Céad Meith 16, 2004 01:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Aer lingus always had high fares which were out of reach for the working class but that was a time when private companies wern`t any better and air travel was expensive all over western europe.De regulating the market at the time could have upped prices if anything particularily if you consider the state of the economy back in the late 70s early 80s.Aer lingus despite its high fares was dependent on state subsidies to cover its costs.

As for privatising the bus service dublin bus cannot run all its routes on its own. it needs state subsidies to cover its costs.therefore there is no way a private company could run all the roots that dublin bus ran, provide concessions to elderly and schoolkids and make a profit. In order to make a profit a private company would have to cut non profitable routes and hike fairs.thats why unions etc do not want to see another privatisation disaster.

author by oedipussypublication date Máirt Meith 15, 2004 23:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Aren't you missing the big picture with your Mammy fixation ? Even Dessy O Malley the Grandaddy of them all promised to stand by the Republic and break the mould ...........

Surely the point is that DAS KAPITAL in its present globalised post-national incarnation can even afford to dispense with a traditional nation-state party political machine like FF ...

Nobody is indispensible .. the Mammy is only a means to an end .... a mere willing tool .... which can be replaced by a big farmer or any other suchlike ..... even a small one would do providing he would sell his granny ... or even the mammy .......

author by dddoww de dddoww de dddoww 00-iosaf - cue shirley bassie- ¿who owes the microleft?publication date Máirt Meith 15, 2004 22:27author address author phone Report this post to the editors

and said quite clearly that she vowed to destroy it as a nation-state party political machine the wonder of democratic Europe of the 1960s indeed.
she said so.
It just took her a while.

Parton is only a big farmer, he's not on record saying "i'll do the Fianna Fail party".

anyone for the mature recollection tape archive, or will we just stick to the internet open source movement for the moment?

author by oedipussypublication date Máirt Meith 15, 2004 21:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Aren't you missing the point old chap .... ?
We know you have it in for the Mammy Harney .... but does it really matter ....
Don't you realise that for DAS KAPITAL all politicos are a mere means to an end ... and hence highly EXPENDABLE ......

Exit the Mammy, enter (for example) Uncle Tom Parlon ...... and would the punters be any better off ?

author by iosaf of all those lovely ribbonspublication date Máirt Meith 15, 2004 17:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

on second thoughts then you'd be a hypocrite.
You don't want to seem like a hypocrite do you?
Can't go backtracking on three years of Governmental Policy now can you?

Tought titty Bertie. You're going into Opposition in 2005, because the PDs lost you the election, and you've just declared you won't go to Brussels.
& to think I thought you were capable of strategic thinking, you go too uppity and VIP-ish, and Man you're on the post Iraq war list.

enjoy the MIR and enjoy Bloomsday.

author by iosaf the big tall ship fan.publication date Máirt Meith 15, 2004 17:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

She's had 7 years.
7 years in a ministry.
and we aren't impressed.
And we have been quite tightlipped over how un-impressed we have been.

Now you're not going to Europe.
Olé! And the knives are out in your party.
_* DO*_ the mammy Harney.
_*DO*_ Michael Mc Dowell.

& Get yourself down to Sir Roger's Quay, and have a look at the MIR when she docks, relax, it's not the end of the world, you're still getting your coffee table book, and I always offered you sloppy hugs, I'll continue lauding the ròle you played in geo-Politics even if you presided the most corrupt party of ineffectual self-satisfied gombeenmen since (oh when was it ???? 1922? 1936? 1974?)

hey why not blame it all on Rosyton?
Yep. that's it. Bertie all you have to do, take it from me (I'm a cheap nay free online source of mass-psychological wisdom) is
Fire Mc Dowell.
Humiliate Harney.
And Turn on Rosyton
and you're home and dry.
go on be "brave and couragous" look @ Tony.
look @ Aznar.

author by Homerpublication date Máirt Meith 15, 2004 17:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Progressive Democrats face extinction!


author by Kpublication date Máirt Meith 15, 2004 15:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Don't you mean 30 quid, not 30 bob?

author by jeffpublication date Máirt Meith 15, 2004 12:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I'd well believe it, the rate at which rent soared was criminal in the past eight years. In Dublin 97, I remember one could get a flat for 30 bob a week, which was just over half what an unemployed person got on the dole.

Now the dole is 134 a week, yet you'd be hard pressed to find a bedsite below that figure.

Don't hold yer breath waiting for our wonderful government to introduce rent caps. Aside from getting off on the fact that people are in the proverbial, government intervention in the wonderful, liberal economy is a no no, especially when it comes to upstanding individuals with enough initiative to go out there and charge the GNP of a third world country on a box complete with damp, must, and rodents.

author by chris bondpublication date Luan Meith 14, 2004 23:42author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The last saint vincent de paul newsletter gave accurate figures on homelessness. it has clearly doubled since 1997.

author by jeffpublication date Luan Meith 14, 2004 18:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I said you were acting like Rush Limbaugh because you gave a staement without showing us your source. Namely, your assertion that there are twice as many unemployed young people below the poverty line than in 1997.

I am asking; how do you know?

I know you are not a PDer. My point re Limbaugh was in relation to how he makes sweeping generalisations without backing these purported 'facts' without real evidence.

Cheers :0)

author by Factspublication date Luan Meith 14, 2004 13:55author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Unfortunately the facts tell a different story.

I hope the end of the PD's comes swift and fast but they increased their percentage of first preference votes granted by only 1 %. But itis still an increase and hardly heralds their death knoll.

And they won more local election seats in 2004 than in 1999. They have 18 now compared to only 16 five years ago.

This does not make them a strong political force but unfortunately it means they are in a position of power in many local councils as they hold the balance of power. PD's are apt to manipulate that to the detriment of ordinary people. PD's are not yet dead and not even dying.

But with FF falling fast, PD's eight TD's will not be enough to keep them in power in the next general election

And then we will see how quickly FF can desert the PD's and turn to SF. But will SF actually have any policies by then?

author by Deepublication date Luan Meith 14, 2004 13:13author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I agree with most of what you have to say.

However, I have to take issue with this:

**We are a SMALL ISLAND of THREE MILLION PEOPLE. We have neither the MEANS nor the SPACE to accomodate and help the THREE BILLION people living in poverty today. As sad as that is, all we can do is help a fraction as best we can, which if you could see past your own Goddamn rhetoric for two minutes is what McDowell is trying to do, like it or not.**

To rant so eloquently about the naivete of others and then come out with this shows an astonishing blind spot.

McDowell is not trying to help anybody with the referendum or any of his other immigration "policies".

The policy in these matters coming out of DoJ is confused and contradictory. The emphasis is almost exclusively on economic migration to meet Ireland's labour needs with a complete disregard for the fact that workers are people, and as such that the state that invites them in has a duty of care to them.

The refusal to treat immigrants as people (cf refusal of automatic work permits to spouses of nurses, issuing work permits to employers rather than workers, blanket denial of new work permits to certain catergories post accession) have led to and are still causing huge difficulties for many people who now consider Ireland their home.

Although Ireland was, and still is, policy-wise in favour of net immigration, McDowell is trying to limit the rights of those immigrants. If Ireland really was full to the brim, if it had somehow been decided that there was no more room at the inn, I could maybe understand why it was important to limit citizenship, even if I didn't agree with it.

But while we are still officially letting people in, why are we making it harder for their children to be Irish?

So that it will be easier to send them home when they have outlived their usefulness to us.

Whatever McDowell is doing with the whole immigration/citizenship thing, it has nothing to do with altruism.

author by iosaf the ipsiphipublication date Luan Meith 14, 2004 12:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

We have kicked both FF and PD in the floating ribs, this does not signal a return to FG government. I am sorry you will all have to deal with a few weeks of "we're going to be the next government" crap from them.
however, fine minds are coming back to Ireland. You might think these minds are of the right, or centre right, you might think they worry about sealcubs too much or are a bit chipmunky and cute,
but I'll tell you this.
The work is not yet done.

You Greenies have a problem, I long ago called it "the slimey greenie effect".
SF can contain FF especially if the PDs are chasing right votes. This is wonderful, it means Mikey Mc Dowell does most of the hard work in hobbling both Fianna Fail and his own Party. The day the Mammy drops Mikey, the PDs will _help_ FF again.
So- make sure all anti-Mikey campaigns are full of hyperbole, emotional and appear slightly irrational. We on the left (be it on the island of Ireland or the continent of Europe) need to play these party machines well.
They are as you will know incapable of pursuing different campaign lines, it is incompatible with "large party unity". This is where judicious use of independents always works.
And it has worked.

So now is when the Greenies become important. SF have taken a 7% swing from FF. I see every indication that they can hold this, some voters may swing to Labour.
The Greenies are to FG what SF are to FF.

So Greenies, you need to reshuffle, and revamp and suck Enda Kenny's non comitted swing factor before the General Election. You can do this.

As we all know, you don't need the snobs to govern Ireland, hence we don't need the PDs, and as we all know you can't govern Ireland without the polite C.ofI. types.
Enda Kenny as well as being a racist, is too Catholicke to lead the residual constituency of Fine Gael. Target him again.

I will naturally hang out online and tell you how to do it. This was always how it was going to work. If anyone can offer me a better model for "breaking the mould" of Irish politics, then go print T-shirts.

author by the magnificent Lord Rothschildpublication date Luan Meith 14, 2004 00:40author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I beg your pardon ?

Ireland is ruled by well-placed PDs ?

Ireland is ruled by US-based MNC's and local financial institutions like the Wank of Ireland and AIB, and industrial conglomerates like CRH.

The well-placed PDs are merely the political patsies and "straw men" (& women) for the REAL RULERS who rule from behind closed doors ...

Harney is a beefy mother but in reality she rules nothing ... she's just a messenger girlie for THE BIG BOYS .....

author by chris bondpublication date Domh Meith 13, 2004 23:59author address author phone Report this post to the editors

i dont understand your response to my last post. it was anything but pro PD

author by Buzzbypublication date Domh Meith 13, 2004 22:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The PDs haven't lost. Their mentality has just been absorbed into Fianna Fail.

Ireland is ruled by well-placed PDs such as Mary Harney, Michael McDowell and Pat Cox in Europe.

author by Daraghpublication date Domh Meith 13, 2004 22:09author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Lets be honest here people, what do you think is a greater benefit to working class people: Massive semi-state companies like Aer Lingus that for decades kept air-travel prices so high that only a tiny privileged elite could afford them, or deregulated, cheap airlines like RyanAir which have allowed for the first time ever in this country lower-income families to take regular holidays on the continent if they so choose? Or how about Public Transport: Should we continue to let the government run Dublin's shockingly inept Public Transit system, one that can be only described as barely functional when compared with those of other major Metropolitan areas. Or should we deregulate and FORCE public transit systems to deliver, lest they go out of business. Hell, more people might actually USE public transport then, cutting down on Dublin's ferocious traffic problems, and doing our bit for the environment as well. But of course it would involve privatisation, so no matter how much benefit it would be to people, traffic and the environment the far-left lunatics like Joe Higgin's and the semi-reformed Sinn Feinn terrorists will automatically oppose, as will ironically enough the Greens. I cannot say I am a fan of all the actions of this government, but I find it truly disappointing that Left-wing politics in Ireland has been reduced to support for an economic system that has spread poverty and misery wherever and whenever it has been implemented (Not to mention state-slaughter by the million in a number of cases) and moronic sloganeering by which one tars all of ones opponents as Fascists.

Lets go off on a tangent and examine some of the similarities between the Irish Left, and the American Right:
Both cling tenaciously to defunct economic theories for reasons of ideological purity rather than their actual practical application (American's Supply-Side, Irish Socialism.)
Both reject the very notion of engaging in valid or reasoned debate with their ideological opponents, preferring to simply dismiss them as 'evil' and usually as advocates of one or the other 30's-40's Totalitarian governments (American's 'Communists, America-Haters etc.' Irish: 'Racists, Fascists.')
Both have an embarrassing tendency to spew a mind-boggling array of lies and half-truths in order to support their pre-conceived ideological biases, rather than adjusting their perception of reality based upon the factual evidence at hand. (America: Reagan's refusal to believe he did anything wrong during Iran-Contra, most of what W. has ever said. Irish: Michael D. Higgin's embarassing rant against the Referendum which he later retracted, the far Left's embrace of Sinn Feinn as a valid political party.)
Both simultaneously position themselves as the 'true' defenders of Democracy and Democratic values in rhetoric, while showing mind-boggling contempt for it in actual fact (American's: W's 'Election', Reagan stealing Carter's policy docs before their debates, the Christian Right. Irish: Indymedia's proclamation that 80% of the Irish Population are 'Racist', the embarassing bin-tax protests in areas that accepted and supported the plan, Support for Sinn Feinn, the party with its own Private Army!)
The belief that the superiority of their ideology and belief somehow makes them above the law. (America: W's installation again, Abu Ghraib and the explicit condonement of torture. Irish: the outrage expressed on the left that bin-tax protestors were arrested for breaking the law (Damn this crypto-fascist police-state of ours!) or on a local level Finbar Dwyer and Simon Larragy, leaders of the UCD anti-coke lobby, happily smoking away during the Coke debate in the enclosed space that is theatre M and exposing several UCD students to their cancerous second-hand smoke while accusing the Yes campaign of not caring about the harmful effects their actions had on other people.)
And finally, the willingness to embrace any fantasy that fits in with their ideological world-view despite massive historical/technologial/commonsensical evidence the contrary (Americans: SDI, Irish: Socialism.)

The list goes on and this post is already far too large, but if you read carefully you should see a common thread running through:

Basically folks, Ireland needs a revitalised left that fights hard for Gay-Rights, Abortion-Rights, a coherent immigration policy that allows us to help as many asylum seekers as possible (the mind-boggling stupidity of the 'No Nations No Borders' plan many people on this site seem to espouse needs to be addressed. We are a SMALL ISLAND of THREE MILLION PEOPLE. We have neither the MEANS nor the SPACE to accomodate and help the THREE BILLION people living in poverty today. As sad as that is, all we can do is help a fraction as best we can, which if you could see past your own Goddamn rhetoric for two minutes is what McDowell is trying to do, like it or not.) commitment to Fair Trade practices, engaging as much as possible with Europe and trying to render the same assistance to our new Eastern European members that unleashed the Celtic Tiger in Ireland. Creating as many jobs at decent wages as possible, and encouraging more people to work at them, rather than upping the dole. A coherent health-care policy (IE no longer issuing Medical cards to all OAPs regardless of their personal wealth) Encouraging more people to pursue third-level education (Remember folks, it was the PDs that vetoed the possibly re-introduction of fees, but you've already conveniently forgot that haven't you?) Helping the poor with tax-breaks and financial assistance, but recognising that the middle class (which makes up the majority of Ireland's socialist movement) and upper class have the means to pay for certain services, and therefore probably should (A personal example, I live in a two-income family, the Dad's a Doctor, the Mum's a nurse, and we make pretty good scratch. Regardless, I have just spent the last three years at UCD studying Arts on the Governments Dollar. As far as I'm concerned that's E20,000 that should have been spent on our crumbling Library and faulty computers not me.) Continuing our active engagement in UN Peacekeeping operations all around the Globe.

The list as ever goes on. I could write a book about it. If irish left wing politics is ever going to matter, or even WORK, we have to reject the ludicrous trappings of the Socialist Worker's Party, Sinn Feinn, and the Michael D. Higgin's wing of Labour. We have to stop espousing what we'd LIKE to work, and start promoting what actually DOES work (Example, in comments on the referendum thread, Mary O'Rourke 'I've had enough of this country. I'm moving to Cuba.' Perhaps you could visit Mr. Castro's 're-education' camps for Homosexuals and political dissidents while you're there, and THEN start making comments about Ireland's Human Rights record.) I know, nobody on this site is going to agree with this post (if I'm proved wrong on that point, I'll be very happy) and I don't mean to tar everyone in Ireland with left-wing sympathies with the same brush. I'm talking about the Higgins' of this country (Both Joe and Michael D.) the Gerry Adams' and the Martin Ferris'. Instead of celebrating the 'Destruction' of the PDs (Hardly. The PDs will never fare well on a county council level because they're not that kind of party. They're Macro-Economists, not... well whatever it is local councils actually DO in this country.) perhaps we should be trembling in fear at the prospect that SINN FEINN, the political wing of a vicious, violent terrorist groups responsible for thousands of murders will form part of our next government, if these results are anything to go by.

But of course they say all the right things in their manifestoes so what they actually DO doesn't matter to you guys, huh?

author by jeffpublication date Domh Meith 13, 2004 18:50author address author phone Report this post to the editors

...below the poverty line?

source, please Mr. Chris Bond. Don't go acting like Rush Limbaugh! Thats for PD followers, not the 'elect' left!

author by chris bondpublication date Domh Meith 13, 2004 18:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

They are a Fad party the only reason why they doubled their seats in the last election was because people had money in their pocket.Also they benefited from fianna fail voters other preferences.All the evils of this government is their fault. its because of their policies that ireland has twice as many people living below the poverty line than there were in 97

at the wealth same time the wealth of our employers has increased. they are now the fat cats of europe.Irish employers have a higher share of wealth as percentage of national GDP than any other country in europe. The Pds have spent most of the time giving the wealth of the celtic tiger to the rich in the form of tax exemptions whilst public services have been neglected. of course the pds would much rather help their friends in IBEC get richer at the expense of people who need the money the most.

author by jeffpublication date Domh Meith 13, 2004 17:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Got you Iosaf, or Yussef, or Joey de budgie. I see you now, as you see the title of my latest entry as being similar to a title of Msr Crowley's book. Aha!

You'll never escape my clutches, I'll always know yer writing style. AHA!

Welcome back.


author by jeffpublication date Domh Meith 13, 2004 17:27author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It tastes good in liquid form, it shares a lot in common with marijuana coffeee shops, and it is part of the Irish flag.

Anyway, what I meant by 'Elect' is thus;

Some people seem to have a great concern with human rights, etc, etc.People such as indymedia. Unfortunatly, those folk are in the minorety.

Those in the majorety vote centre right.

The centre right consistently suck Bush's cock. They are also in necrophilia, what with all the rimming Reagen has gotten as he decomposes in his coffin.Necrophilia is a sin

Now I don't know my scripture like you do, old Boy, but I do know that Revelations speak of those going to heaven as being in the minorety. So I've put two and two together and gotten 22.

Which, if you ask our friend Iosaf, is a damn well significant number.

Iosaf, where is yer fooking Sunday Papers. Don't desist just cos I slagged you off with a few others last week. Ask anyone, I am a prick, and most people would prefer a years worth of meandering out of you rather than two sentences out of mise.

Anyway, go on the left. Hope Brendan O' Connor hangs himself with misery and shock and horror. If SP win the election, can we put the fucker into a gulag?

author by joey the budgiepublication date Domh Meith 13, 2004 16:53author address author phone Report this post to the editors

So Jeff, do you feel saved? As you know you can't really become a member of "the elect" or "non elect", it's all been decided by forces unseen and unfathomable.

Who can know the mysterious forces which give one baby the name "Ahern" and another "Bush" and so blight their political careers?
I reckon if you feel good in sombre black clothing, don't feel ashamed of anything in your livingroom and accordingly never use lace curtains, haven't had an orgasm ever, and feel happy to see prostitutes on your street, you might just be a member of John Calvin's Geneva Crew.

Though others would say you are suffering from the sin of irresitable grace.
Mikey Mc Dowell seems to have a lot of this one.
Irresitable grace, means you get a heretical rush of being chosen, and therefore beyond naughtiness. Any solid bible thumper would say this knocks free will on the head and would send you to
Deuteronomy 30:15-18;
Joshua 24:15;
John 15:6-7; 3:16
They might then follow it up with :-
"We must all appear before the judgment that each may be repaid for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad." from the 2nd letter to the Corinthians by old Paul the Roman 5:10
They'd say, Listen here Jeff, this "elect" nonsense contradicts the parable of talents where man is held accountable for his actions. Mathew 25:19.
And it negates the importance of man's obedience to the covenants.
¿where are the matches?
send for the inquisition!

The Spanish bishops are urging everyone to vote for RC parties today and cast their ballot against resolutely "secular" parties in European elections Sunday, in a reference to the ruling Socialist Party and its refusal to back a mention of Europe's Christian roots in the future EU constitution.

Meanwhile Karl Marx is known to have wrtten to Engels explaining that Calvin really was a clever politico, Hi Geneva, i've no home, you're all saved, stick with me, you're going to Heaven. Do you like the colour Orange?

author by jeffpublication date Domh Meith 13, 2004 15:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

A shinig beacon lights up in the horizon;


My favorite part of this story:

"The Taoiseach's brother, Maurice Ahern, pondering the possible loss of his own seat on Dublin City Council, told the Sunday Independent: "The Ahern name did the damage."

That has fecking well cracked me up.

I am still well disgruntled with fecking Galway and it's shitty, penny pinching voters. Maybed the Sindo wil move it's publishing house there.

author by jeffpublication date Domh Meith 13, 2004 15:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

But I am goinmg back next year. Living abroad is a great way to se your country. I know now that

1) Irish people today care about money before principles.

2) the PDs are the ones that deliver on such

3) When the US eventually attacks Iran, possibly next year, expect more overt support from FF/PDs, and more sneering against those with any moral qualms against such a war.

Life goes on, I will become a teacher, where upon I will become even more suspect in the eyes of the Irish people. Left leaning typeswith jobs tend to be teachers, trade union officials, the odd journalist ( dwindling numbers), colege professors ( same),and, eh, thats it.

Look at the rest of Europe. Mums, dads and genteel oid people are voting with their selfish heads and hearts. How adorable.

I'm thinking of becoming a calvinist. Why? Elect and non elect; the former are in the minorety. Indymedia has a good heart, and a sense of decency. This is why it constantly gets ridiculed and is in the minorety.

We're saved, then, if everything John Calvin said comes to pass, for the Sindo, FF/PDs etc, all worship Mammon


author by Starstruck - UCD Leftpublication date Domh Meith 13, 2004 15:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Mickey Mac and the Nazis are soon to be impeached word on the street has it..
As NWA put it in their "Straight outta Compton" album ---Fuck the PDs!

author by yussefpublication date Domh Meith 13, 2004 15:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I am being misrepresented on that last statement and what I really wanted to say was :-
You vote you don't vote
the Government gets in.
I'm glad i'm not in the country.
Aren't you glad you're not in the country?
but hopefully if we pray hard enough, to the blessèd saint Ronnie, Mikey Mc Dowell will be spared the week long satanic rituals of a state funeral.
(We're doing it for your eternal soul Mikey.)

And man, brendan ocarrol, slagging off Bertie's dress sense, you should have seen them go in. The only one who wore a tie was Chirac. "oooo the french are so so chic!".
He did it to seem like the boss. Bush turned up with wife in a star spangled golf buggy.
"oooo he's so popular".
Later Chirac had to take the tie off to go do the walkabout, (little bit of "consultation petit" with Quai d'Orsay- we advice you to remove the tie Monsieur, leave the Legion d'honeur lapel pin on though - "it's the little details")
Bush's crew- Mr President we're going open neck, we advise you drop the US flag from the lapel.

Fair Fks to Bertie, "Hello Harcourt Street, does these trousers go with this jacket?"
Yeah boss, I'd have gone with the sportsjacket but you look grand. Do you have any plastic bags to go over the brogues?
-Not with me superintendant.
-well see if you can get a couple of bags from Tony.
-can't he's taking his injection at the moment.

In short Bertie didn't look like he was trying out for NATO secretary general, or even a UN commissioner job. Somewhere in that head, Bertie has a self-survival instinct, - "you don't want the job, you think you're going to lose your benefit, what are you going to do?"
1. go to the interview on drugs.
2. wear the wrong clothes.
I love you Bertie. sloppy big hugs.
I hate you Mikey. You'd wear the effin shirt.

author by jeffpublication date Domh Meith 13, 2004 15:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors

So f*ck it, we'l turn into one of those nice places like the Isle of Man or Singapore.

Damn I should have studied business, f8inance, or something that I'd be misreable in but at least I'd have loadsa money.

People only respect you if you have money.

author by jeffpublication date Domh Meith 13, 2004 15:04author address author phone Report this post to the editors


22% so far-I hate them as far as social freedoms go, but most folk like them. Profit before priciples could well become a future party slogan that voters will respond to.

Moral of the story; people are generally driven by self interst. Helping ones fellow man is a hobby for Christmas time.

Rents, prices of food etc will go up , a refelection of our ' vibrant economy'. Wages won't though, but that is all part of the vibrant economy.

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