ICTU SELL OUT
antrim |
bin tax / household tax / water tax |
press release 
Wednesday October 15, 2003 21:33
by Trade unionist
knife in the back for the prisoners
In a statement today ictu caused further damage to the anti bin tax movement by restating the position of the GS David Begs on 25 September.
The knife went in further when ictu failed to call for the release of the prisoners and called for the campaign to halt effective action, a tactic that would bring the heroic resistance to the bin tax to an end.
ictu appears to have lost all contact with union members. It is time we took back our unions.
ICTU STATEMENT ISSUED TODAY
The Executive Council of Congress held its monthly meeting in Dublin today in the course of which it reviewed the current Bin Tax controversy.
The Executive Council endorsed the statement issued on 25 September, 2003 by the General Secretary which, inter alia, reaffirmed our strong concerns about the inadequacy of funding for local services and the regressive nature of proposals for local charges but differed with the tactics of the bin protestors.
In that context it views with concern the deteriorating situation on the ground and the potential for people to be hurt or injured. It reiterates the view, expressed in the statement of 25 September, that a sense of proportion and tolerance should inform all parties involved. In that regard it calls on the authorities to declare a moratorium of two weeks on any further legal proceedings against protestors. It calls on the protestors to confine themselves to activities, which are within the law, and to desist from obstructing local authority workers. Everyone has responsibility now to try to cool things down and prevent matters getting out of control.
Congress has arranged to meet government next week to press its case for an equitable and progressive approach to tax policies, consistent with the principle of a person's ability to pay. It has made a detailed pre-budget submission including proposals for an alternative approach to financing of local authority services based on empowering local authorities to raise revenue from windfall land sales and re-zoning decisions.
Comments (50 of 50)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50"It calls on the protestors to confine themselves to activities, which are within the law"
Wouldn't James Connolly love that! Mr Beggs seems to forget that if people never broke laws, his organisation would not be around in the first place.
Sell-out.
maybe they wouldnt be so quick to judge if the illegal action was inforcing the majority opinion of their members or the public. stop comparing yourself to people who you are not
The other discussion at ictu today was the cash crisis that beggs has led the organisation into. £170,000.00 (approx) overspend. The soloution ictu has come up with is to slash resources in the north.
joe higgins gets, to the best of my knowledge, the highest first pref vote in the country. I could be wrong, but he is def solidly voted in in any case. Connolly and his politics was also popular in particular areas, but not the entire country, not by a long shot.
In fact, the more militant side of the labour movement has always been plodding along in the voting ranks, but strong in particular areas. None of this is rocket science.
It is disengenuous (spellin a bit off) to imagine that the bould heros of the past were fully supported but similiarly styled militants today aren't. How big was the Irish Citizen's Army, how prominent were socialist militants in 1916 etc etc....
Our union movement is a powerful weapon to fight for working class interests. The problem is it is controled at the top by those who have a vested interest in maintaining the present social system. It is time the members took them back into their own hands. The workers of this country need fighting democratic unions that support them not slave unions that will sell them out for a place in the governments good books.
Were I come from, that sounds like fighting talk. And if there's one thing I'm definatley not, it's a fighter!
Now, ssshhhhhh. Bertie might hear.
Overspending on WHAT?!?!
The 'Yes to Nice' campaign?
Seem the officials have been doing very well in the current economic climate. Over spend is on wages.
How dare you make such a scurrilous and untrue assertation! Jeeves, escort him outside at once!
To be fair davy has his bin tax to pay even if the rest of us dont.
Or does anyone else think David Begg makes a conscious attempt to look like Donald Sutherland?
Bertie's Heroes, anyone?
Ordinary People (don't matter to me)
Six Degrees of Seperation (from the membership)
S*M*A*S*H (the bin tax campaign)
Free Money (for officials)
Beggsy the Union Slayer
Lock Up (the campaigners)
Heaven Help Us (I'm still here)
and of course, his finest role,
Start the Revolution Without Me
Des Derwin is fighting the election in SIPTU in order to bring an opposition to the fore in the trade union movement. We need a broad left in evry union built from the grassroots up. Des is making a start here. He needs help and we need a similar move in every other union. Otherwise we will have Beggs or another pro partnership type saying similar things for ever.
The Left must cooperate to build this broad left in each trade union. There must be unity not fronts of various parties and cliques.
Fight the sellouts everywhere.
Is it not true that wherever or whomever you get your support from, that you are supposed to look after their interests???
The ICTU have become a "YES", "PLEASE" "SORRY" organisation who are so far up Fainne Fail's arse, that you dont know where David Beggs starts, and where Berti (BUSH'S MAN)Ahern finishes.
It is also interesting to note that unions in the north are having to pay more to the ICTU, with a lesser service, because the mandarins at the top of the ICTU have spent, overspent, on things probably related to the NICE campaign.
Bottom line folks, the ICTU heads are no better than a shower of bastards who wud sell their granny!!!!!!!!!
Aye Jim, that should do the trick.
(Meanwhile back on Earth)
Any tips for the bin tax campaign?
While Michael D. Higgins spoke well in the Dail last night in general Labour have behaved in a shameful manner. Eamon Gilmores double speak is nauseating. Only 11 years ago he was in a party which allegedly wanted to abolish capitalism.
Labour opposes bin charges. Therefore Labour should join in the campaign of Civil Disobedience. If the founders of the Labour Party had always obeyed the law then would all workers have the vote today?
Some of us in Labour are active in the campaign.
Because I haven't encountered any Labour activists let alone supporters at the protests in Fingal.
Here's a constructive suggestion for you. Why don't you and any other Labour Party people who support the campaigns publically challange the stand taken by Rabbitte?
While I accept that Magneto is campaigning actively against the bin tax, in Finglas there is no evidence of any Labour Party people being involved.
9 working class people from the Finglas Area went to jail because they believe passionatley that this is an unjust tax (none of them elected members to any assembly - not that it matters). And not a word from the local Labour Party TD or councillor.
If you say that you are only in the Labour Party because you believe that you can change it from within, let us know how far you get with Michael's request and whether you intend to review your position re the LP.
Nor am I going to reveal my identity to him.
Need I remind the forgetful Mr O'Brien of the SPs opposition to Direct Action at Shannon? About the SPs slandering of the Black Bloc? How Mr O'Brien wrote an article about Evian, praising the restraint of the police yet failing to mention the incident on the bridge.
How about the SPs scare tactics about Shannon, warning that Gardai might fire into amn unarmed crowd. Or Mr O'Briens personal scare tactics on the need to have medics at the demo (this is on the GNAW list in a reply from O'Brien to Chekov.)
How many SP members disagreed with the SP positon? None!
I am prepared to criticise the LP and I will continue to fight my corner within the LP. Is a pity O'Brien is more concerned with scoring points on behalf of the SP than accepting support for the campaign.
I have not at any time defended the LP line on Bin Charges. I disagree with the majority position in Labour. In Labour you can get away with that. Try it in the SP and you'll end up like John Throne.
Which campaign are you active in Magneto?
Because I haven't encountered any Labour activists let alone supporters at the protests in Fingal.
Here's a constructive suggestion for you. Why don't you and any other Labour Party people who support the campaigns publically challange the stand taken by Rabbitte?
the labour party is not my favourite party at present nor is it likely to be for the remainder of this century. but when a member of the labour party is prepared to criticise the stance of gilmore , rabbitt & co then it should be welcomed.
its not a reason to attack him because of past quarrels. it would have been better if magneto had not responde by also raising the past but i'm not surprised that he did.
but lets leave it at that. accept support for the campaign. especially when hes knocking the labour party leadership.
in an ideal situation all posters would be open on indy. but, some editors and even some SP, swp, wsm, sf members choose to remain anonymous so we can hardly knock magneto for keeping his identity hidden.
Why don t the members of ICTU vote out BEGGS. HE seems to be a twig from some governmental branch!!
Why fight for wage increases for workers if its going to be swallowed up by Charges such as bin and water????
In all fairness Magneto has this habit when asked a question on a particular issue by a member or ex-member of an organisation that he has an aversion to, to drag up past issues. The same thing happened in an exchange of views with Paddy. Michael didn't have a go, all he did was ask a question and suggest how he could help the campaign.
Personally, I wouldn't agree with the SP on everything but I think even Magneto would agree, because he implies as much, that on this they have been right along with the rest of us supporting the tactics of the campaign to date.
And where did he ask for his identity?
The question though that still applies is that Magneto has disagreed with the LP on their engagement with the anti-war movement, Partnership, Privatisation and now the bin charges.
Which policies does he agree with?
Magneto could at least tell us which local authority area he is active in- that wouldn't 'reveal his identity'.
Pat C, you praise magneto's stance against the Labour Party leaders. In general I praise people criticising the leaders of the establishemnt parties, however magneto is criticising Rabbitte et al in the same way that FF backbenchers are against smoking ban- it's not a genuine opposition, it's more to do with votes and support at the election!
i dont support labour but i'm glad to see a labour party member being active in the anti bin tax campaign. if magneto is who i think he is, then he has nothing to answer for about his activities in GNAW, anti Nice or in this campaign.
green party members who have commented on indy and opposed the bin tax and criticised their leadership havent had the same demands put on them.
surely on this thread we should be concentrating on attacking beggs and rabbitt rather than savaging people who dont measure up to some arbitary "revolutionary" standard.
"Why don't you and any other Labour Party people who support the campaigns publically challange the stand taken by Rabbitte?"
An anonymous poster on indymedia who claims that s/he is a LP member and who claims that s/he opposes their stance on the bin-tax, isn't really going to get Rabbite and co too worried. On the other hand, LP members publically challenging the line of the leadership would be very useful to the campaign. Why not?
If Magneto has been involved in the anti bin tax campaign and the anti Nice campaign (And I am certainly willing to believe him) he does seem to be a little lost within the Labour party and I reckon he knows this.
So he probably looked at his options. He could join the SP, SF, the SWP or, well after that we're into tiny numbers.
For some reason, he probably looked at them all and decided he had a better chance of accomplishing change by fighting within the Labour party than he did in another party, or in none at all. Or he disagreed fundamentally with one of the others. Maybe he thinks Labour is winnable to the Left.
People who disagree with their party line, and are willing to make it public, like some Shinners have done on Indymedia and in their own paper before they all seemed to vanish off the system, should be commended. Even if Magneto doesn't give his real name, and fuckit, neither do I for that matter, he is fighting the same fight as we are. His chosen battleground is within the Labour party.
Other people have chosen to make their stand in the Trade Union movement, in Sinn Féin, in their communities and even, dare I say it, one or two lost souls within Fianna Fáil.
We're fighting on the same side, not on every issue, but at this level. If we can't stand together sometimes, ignoring the party labels that divide us, Stickie with Provie, Trot with Anarchist, when we share a common objective then we only have ourselves to blame when the right, barely even trying, kicks seven kinds of shit oout of us.
If we can't stand side by side fighting the bin tax, or on CE cuts, would someone with a purer ideology than mine explain to me how we're going to do it when we set up a world socialist government, or even s 'federation of the British Isles' :)
It would be interesting to get a hold of the minutes of this week's exec committee to see what the northern union leaders said regarding the jailings, and the overspend.
I would inform you that John Corey and Brian Campfield of NIPSA, Brendan Mackin of AMICUS and Patricia Mc Keown of UNISON are but a few of the heads who would have been there and party to what was said.
WE should demand sight of these minutes.
If any of you out there has access, or has heard snippets, please put it on here.
Well I can also confirm that no - as in not one - Labour Party member is active in the Dun Laoghaire /Rathdown campaign.
The vast majority of people in the campaign are not in any political party. The following political groups are also represented: Socialist Party, WSM, SWP, Workers Party (well, one person). No Labour Party people at all.
So we now have people confirming that no Labour Party members are active in the Fingal, Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown or Finglas campaigns.
I am almost sure that no Labour members are active in the South Dublin campaign either.
That just leaves the City campaign, minus Finglas.
Can anyone from other areas of the City campaign tell us if there is even one Labour Party member active in their area?
I don't care who Magneto is, I just find it pathetic that he is trying to pretend that Labour Party members have been involved in a campaign that his party has been stabbing in the back.
Do you not think you would be better off working on behalf of the campaign , mailing ICTU rather than trying to find out my identity? Are you really suggesting that you know the identity of every single member in every local group in the areas you have mentioned. The local groups controlled by the sectarians must be very small in that case.
Thanks for the support from Janus and Pat c. I wont be driven out of this campaign by people who care more about building their own groups rather then the campaign itself.
Personally I don't care who you are, but I would like to know whether you think it's a good idea for LP members to challenge their party's line in public - if not, why not?
This is a genuine question, I have zero interest in point-scoring against the LP.
i'm really puzzled at your attitude. i would have expected the wsm to welcome labour members to the struggle. instead you act like the uup do towards sf: expecting magneto to jump through hoops to prove his purity.
why should he dance to your tune. if magneto chooses not to identify himself then thats his right. surely there is a role for everyone in this campaign. some will choose to openly denounce the leaders of theie parties/groups others wont. anonymous green party members on indy have opposed the bin tax and the position of their party. they have not been attacked as magneto has. the contribution of all should be welcomed.
this started off as a criticism of the ictu burocracy. lets put the boot into beggs rather than kick down those who support the campaign.
Beginning to wonder at the accuracy of these lists of parties involved in things. I know at least one SFer has been involved in Dun Laoghaire / Rathdown blockades as I know him personally and was talking to him on the day of the first one. For the record I know loads of them involved in the City campaign, including some in prison.
I'm not suggesting anyone is distorting anything, just that people might not always recognise that people there are members of other parties.
A very amusing, and true, story going the rounds at the moment regarding the Anti Bin Tax protest outside Leinster House.
Martin Ferris was standing in the crowd and was approached by an SP member selling the Voice. Martin refused it politely saying he was Sinn Fein. The paperseller engaged him in conversation asking him what was SF policy on the charges and Martin said the shinners were against them and he'd voted against them on Kerry County Council.
The SP fellow then said if Martin was opposed to the Bin Charges would he be prepared to go to prison against it as Higgins did. Martin responded that it wasn't an issue in Kerry at which point the SP chappie loses his temper and told a man who spent 13 years in prison and went on hunger strike for his political beliefs (Think of them what you will) that he didn't have the guts to go to prison for his politics.
Martin's response was blunt :)
Point is, I would have thought everyone knew who Martin Ferris was and what he did. This guy didn't. At an anti-war protest last year someone was complaining loudly that the Shinners hadn't come out when a man who was taking part in the sit-down protest blocking the entrance to Leinster House piped up to inform him that he was the Sinn Fein TD for Louth.
We don't know by sight every member of every other organisation, nor can we. That's the Branch's job in fairness.
Maybe there are Labour people involved in the DL/Rathdown campaign and you don't recognise them. As comrades, I think we should be giving each other the benefit of the doubt, and not the benefit of our abuse.
I asked a question. I am interested in the answer. I do welcome members of all parties to the struggle. In our local campaign as far as I know the party with the biggest representation (in terms of members) is probably FF. Still, I am interested to know the pros and cons of going public with opposition from the point of view of a LP member. I am not asking anybody to jump through hoops, I asked a question because I would like to know the answer. Can you understand that?
Nobody in the Labour Party gets the benefit of the doubt when it comes to being considered a "comrade" of mine, Janus. The same goes for members of Fianna Fail, Fine Gael or the Progressive Democrats.
If somebody who for some bizarre reason hold Labour Party membership wants to be considered a "comrade" in this struggle or any other then they had better do something to earn it. Anonymously claiming that you are involved in the campaign somewhere, but not saying where and refusing to do something genuinely useful - like say issuing a press release criticising the spinelesness of Rabbitte etc on this issue - just isn't good enough.
It isn't impossible that there has been a member of the Labour Party or two at a protest. It is equally possible that there has been some confused member of Fianna Fail.
The thing is that not one person, in any campaign area, has actually seen such a person. So if one or two of them are there, they are keeping a fucking low profile. So low in fact that there is no evidence of their existence beyond Magneto's word.
Now you will have to forgive me on this, but I'm not inclined to take Magneto's word on anything. Particularly when he predictably reveals his true colours with his remarks about the Fingal, Finglas, South Dublin and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown campaigns being small groups controlled by "sectarians".
So I'll say it again: If any individual member of the Labour Party is actually involved in the campaign (very unlikely though that is) they would do more good by breaking cover and publically criticising the disgusting behaviour of the Labour Party. Skulking around, hiding your presence, thinking to yourself that "I disagree with Rabbitte but I don't have the bottle to do anything about it" helps nobody.
Till then, I'll be treating Magneto' claims with the a proper skepticism.
In my view every activist should be welcomed in to the anti bin tax movement the greatest possible level of unity will be required if the campaign is to win.
It would be of great interest if members of political parties like Labour where to report on the discussions going on within their ranks on the issue.
labour has influence within ICTU and may be a factor in what direction ICTU goes in.
Comrades,
just incase you had not noticed, the ICTU VIPER'S have came out in opposition to the bin tax movement.
The ICTU are firm believer's in "Partnership" and "Social Partnership". These mandarins at the top are no friends of the working class. They are Bureaucrats. They are that used to the lifestyle of "wining and dining" with the likes of Bertie, that they would not know the meaning of the word struggle any longer.How can somebody sitting across the table from you, (in a plush restaurant)take you seriously if you are stating that you are going to fight with them to the death.
David Beggs is a reformist and nothing better that an "astute talker" who is not fit to lace the boots of either Joe Higgins or Clare Daly when it comes to real struggle or sacrifice.
Time Mr Beggs moved on he should stand down now, not only has he made a laughing stock of ICTU in the media he has also run its finances into the ground.
David please get another job, we want our unions back.
I must say, I would fully endorse that. David my boy, it is time you voluntarily went into retirement. As a union member,I thoroughly despise what you have said.
One question though, that nobody has raised yet............UNDER WHO'S AUTHORITY DID DAVID RELEASE HIS FIRST ORIGINAL STATEMENT?
he's the boss and the boss rules.
He behaved like this in the ESBOA
He behaved like this in the CWU
He behaved like this in Concern
Why would you expect him to be any different as head of ICTU
its good to have labour members involved, but if they went public it would be another group against the bin tax and put more pressure.
Magneto, its a bit rich calling others sectarian when you have yet to write a comment without an attack on sp. And magneto its very easy to oppose a party position without telling your party or saying who you are. i would venture whats the point? You go to branch meetings and agree with everything and then write posts on indymedia saying you disagree? This is a question. its very easy, watch, i disagree with my party's position on scotland!!!! very easy. but not much point. Come out of the closet and tell your party you position!
'Now you will have to forgive me on this, but I'm not inclined to take Magneto's word on anything. Particularly when he predictably reveals his true colours with his remarks about the Fingal, Finglas, South Dublin and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown campaigns being small groups controlled by "sectarians".'
Thats not what I said, I was querying whether the anonymous poster knew everyone in the areas mentioned. If that was the case then the groups would have to be very small. I know that is not the case. Not all groups in those areas are controlled by sectarians.
You have some neck demanding my name when you post anonymously yourself.
No, I wont answer the question posted by Chekov and O'Brien, its a when did you stop beating your wife type query. I'm involved in the campaign and I am not answerable to either of you.
Funny that no one asked O'Brien to answer the questions I posed regarding his past activities , comments and writings.
If you don't want to answer the question, so be it. But using the fact that you were asked a question to have a go at my ego is silly. Others may have their own motivations, but mine is simply curiosity. I have never been a member of the LP and therefore don't know the pros and cons of disagreeing publicly with the leadership's stance on any particular issue, I was hoping that you could enlighten me.
Like Chekov I've never been a member of the Labour party but I can't help but think of Roger Cole and his politics. A major campaigner against the Nice Treaty and a member of the Labour General Council. They didn't chuck him out for campaigning against Nice.
But they did make sure that he didn't get selected to run for a council seat next year. Instead they gave that to a FG defector.
So not exactly the best example.
if someone supports a campaign i think its a bit much to DEMAND that he publicly denounce his party leadership. do you put such DEMANDS on the FF members you know in the campaign?
i'm involved in the Ballybough/Clonliffe rd group but i rarely make it to mtgs,i prioritise activities, i dont know if any of the people involved are labour party members. if they are then i'll put no demands on them.
i dont believe you put such DEMANDS on LP/LY members who were involved in GNAW.
i dont think its necessary to do so here.
can you understand that?
The Executive Committee of the ICTU have agreed to moving offices, from Lower Crescent to Donegall Street in Belfast. The offices are smaller and cost less.
The reason for downsizing the NICICTU offices is due to a financial deficit.
The deficit is in the region of 200 thousand Euro.
This flies in the face of the member unions, whom state that the subscriptions in N Ireland, as agreed at the ICTU conference in Tralee, are to be more for the NI unions over a two year period.
David beggs should surely be asked to resign with immediate effect.
ICTU=PAY MORE FOR LESS!
I have demanded nothing of anybody. I have also made no comments about the number of LP people involved. If ye want to make up what I write, sure ye might as well make up my responses as well and leave me out of it.
"I have demanded nothing of anybody."
your "question" sounded like a demand to me. the poster obviously wants to maintain his anonymity.
again i ask you if you demanded that the FFers in your local group denponce the FF party.
aso if you asked LP/LYers active in GNAW to denounce their leadership.
"I have also made no comments about the number of LP people involved. "
i never said that YOU did. it has been raised on the thread. if you've missed it, all you have to do is scroll back up.
"If ye want to make up what I write, sure ye might as well make up my responses as well and leave me out of it. "
so why make up things that i am supposed to have written? a typical stalinist tactic, accuse your opponent of doing what you are doing yourself.
chekov, i suggest we get back to fighting the beaurocracy rather than pillioting those who support the campaign.
David Beggs, General Secretary of ICTU has stabbed the Anti Bin Charges Campaign in the back. Instead of opposing double taxation, Beggs has supported the bin charges.
He condemns campaigners for breaking the law! If Larkin and Connolly had obeyed the law where would the Trade Union movement be today?
Show him that he doesnt represent you. Contact Beggs and demand that ICTU support the Campaign and the release of Joe and Clare.
Contact:
email: congress@ictu.ie
phone: 889 7777
fax: 887 2012
www.ictu.ie
Email Begg directly at david.begg@ictu.ie
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