Report on "Meet & Greet" Bin men in Dundrum & Ballinteer
dublin |
bin tax / household tax / water tax |
news report 
Tuesday September 30, 2003 12:52
by Dundrum/Ballinteer Resident
Campaign Hotline 087 2837989
Residents came out this Monday and Tuesday to ensure all bins were collected.
Both yesterday and today, residents in a number of housing estates in the Dundrum and Ballinteer area came out to greet the bin men and talk with them to ensure all bins were collected. The relationship between the residents and bin men was very friendly, as they realize the people are behind them and with privatisation looming, their jobs and job conditions are on the line.
Today (Tues 30th Sept) residents were out early this morning at 8:15am in Broadford where about 10 people were present to meet and greet the bin men. Then later in Hillview, about 18 people gathered to await the arrival of the bin men.
It was later discovered that the bin lorries were clearly instructed to avoid Hillview and collect in other areas first, so as to avoid the residents. Hillview is normally collected early in the morning.
It was decided that in future to have people scout the area first and to then to assemble where they are collecting. There is a role here for those people who would like to do something, but cannot as they have to go to work. They could phone or text in reports on the whereabouts of the bin lorries to either the campaign hotline or to any of the local people.
And yesterday there was a good turnout in Rosemount, Dundrum where about 30 people were present. In Colombanus 15 people gathered, while in Woodpark Ballinteer 7 people gathered and in Ludford there were 11.
The bin men told us that at the moment they had no instructions not to collect, but it may start in the next week or two.
The council intend to follow around with another lorry to take back the bins of those who have not paid. The council do not have a right to come onto your property so when this happens people should immediately pull the empty bins back into their gardens before the other truck comes along. If they could do this for their neighbours too, then this would be a great help.
The latest tactics by the government are now that they need the double tax to pay for the benchmarking in the civil service. This is just a cynical ploy to try and pit the considerable number of people in the civil service against the campaign.
Fingal CC have recently put adverts out on the air saying bin collection is almost fully resumed, that they are using the bin charges for recycling facilities and they are working with the community. How do they pack so many lies into one ad? They are clearly not working with the community, service has not resumed fully and the mistruth about recycling is an blatant attempt to use the considerable backing by the public for recycling as a means to divide the campaign.
All residents should be aware that waivers will disappear if and when the service is privatised and the pay-by-weight scheme will almost certainly be modified to have a basic flat charge possibly up to 300 or 400 euros with the pay-by-weight scheme on top of that. This has already happened elsewhere and in other countries.
Don't forget Protest at the Dail on Kildare St at 6:30pm this evening to "Scrap the BIN TAX" as the Dail resumes today.
Comments (19 of 19)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19In Ballally there was a blocade of a truck for 2 hours in protest at the threat of non collection. Why are the SWP against the Blocking of trucks as a warning shot to the County Council?
Shamefully the SWP said that they would not stand by resdients that blocked trucks. One of their leading memebers said this last Sunday at an activists meeting in the Dún Laoghaire Rathdown area.
Why are the SWP only 'meeting and greeting' bin men? Why not 'meet and greet' them after stopping their truck?
The truck is the property of the Council, we're stopping the Council, not the workers. Why not Blockade?
I am not a member any political party myself, so I can't really answer your question. I wasn't at the Ballally blockade yesterday, so I would be happy if you could provide a short report on it.
All I can say, since the bin lorries were collecting, a blockade would seem less necessary. In Hillview this morning we didn't even get that chance because the council had directed the bin lorries to collect in all the other areas first because they were aware of the people present and wanted to avoid us at all costs.
just pay your bloody charges yis scabs. Would you like free electricity aswell!!. My mate came back from working in Europe and he said they pay way more tax than we do and thats why their transport and waste services are so much better. The reason ours is so bad is because scabs wont pay for it. Im getting tired of the poor state of the buses and dirty streets because you guys wont pay your fair share.
Only for big business, my foolish Friend.
Blockading when they're collecting is ridiculous. Not only might it over time aggravate the Bin Men but it drives a wedge between residents who have paid their tax and want their bins collected and those who support the campaign, such divisions of working class communities on this matter would have the Council rubbing their hands with glee.
No supporter of the SWP am I, but on this issue, bizarrely, they seem to be on the side of being sensible. The alternative is to blockade a bin truck and when asked why tell residents that you're stopping the truck because all though it's doing what you want it to, other trucks elsewhere aren't, some in different Local Authorities.
If they're not collecting, blockade them, if they're collecting, show support for them.
The campaign & the issues have very little if anything to do with the people collecting the rubbish. It goes much higher up than them. Simple as that.
You talk to any bin man (or woman) whose lorry has been blockaded and they're not in the slightest bit bothered.
If you think blockading while collection continues will drive a wedge between the campaign and the people who pay, then it will only drive a bigger wedge if they stop collecting and blockades go all out. I fail to see any sense in your argument.
The council are playing clever and waiting to break areas before going on to the next. In some of the campaign's strongholds it will be months before the try to implement non-collection. If we only blockade exactly where they have stopped collection, we will face a slow and certain defeat. We have no choice but to attempt to disrupt the service everywhere before they break Fingal and other areas where non-collection is being implemented.
The idea of solidarity is not so strange to the residents. As for showing support for them if they are collecting - now that is bizzare. If they are collecting it is because they have been told to do so by the council, should we be supporting them for obeying orders when the order next week will be to stop collection?
Badman is entirely correct (not words I often use).
You have to look at this in an all-city context. The Councils are trying to pick us off area by area.
This has meant an all out assault on Fingal. It then meant non-collection in a couple of weaker areas in the City. It now means a start to non-collection in one or two small bits of Dublin South.
If the other areas - Dun Laoghaire\Rathdown and the vast bulk of the City and Dublin South don't take action then Fingal will be isolated and gradually worn down. Then they will continue to pick off areas, whether its County by County or street by street.
We can't all sit around and let the areas in the middle of the struggle fight alone and just wait for the establishment to get round to dealing with us.
I am sorry for "shouting" but IF FINGAL IS DEFEATED THEN WE ARE ALL SCREWED.
Residents in Ballally were the first people in Dun Laoghaire \ Rathdown to take meaningful action since the start of non-collection in Fingal. More areas will follow this week. If they don't we may as well give up and come out with our hands up (and wallets open).
The people who are arguing for us to do nothing but come out and talk to bin men while other areas of the campaign are ground down are arguing for a defeat. And anyone involved in the campaign knows that the organisations arguing for this approach are the organisations that have done the least to build the campaign on the ground over the years.
There's no connection here. There are four distinct local authorities, four distinct battles being fought.
Blockading a bin truck in Dundrum does not mke one iota of difference to the campaign in Fingal. Demonstrate strength by all means, but this can be done without a blockade, which again is only going to lead to
Let me put it this way. If a person who has paid their Bin Tax, for whatever reason, asks me why I've blockaded a truck I want to say to her: because that truck won't pick up your neighbour's rubbish, or that of the woman on the pension across the street and aren't you going to stand with them.
I don't want to have to say: Well, they're willing to collect your rubbish, and that of everyone in the area, and they support the campaign but we're blockading them because it will affect in no way whatsoever a blockade going on in Swords.
And they wonder why people don't vote for the left in Irish politics.
You don't engage with the arguments at all here, Janus.
There are not four distinct wars. There is one war that is taking place across the City.
If we let the Councils pick us off area by area then we are going to lose. No area is going to be able to stand alone forever. No area is going to be able to win on its own.
In the City and South Dublin, the Councils actually are implementing non-collection in a few areas. Do you think that the rest of the City and South Dublin should come to their aid or not?
If you think not, then you aren't even arguing for four seperate battles, you are ultimately arguing for a seperate, isolated battle on each route and then each street. That is precisely what the Councils want.
"You don't engage with the arguments at all here, Janus."
oh yes he does! hes arguing with you, hes merely disagreeing with you. janus supports blockading lorries, he just doesnt think it should be done in all circumstances.
personally i agree with blocking lorries in solidarity; but clearly as a gesture of solidarity. if a binlorry crew is going to collect all bins ,then when the cops come along and threaten to take names/make arrests; (imho)it makes sense to stop blocking the truck. there is no point in making a councils job easy by getting yourself injuncted for blocking a truck which was
going to collect all the bins in the first place.
it should be possible to express such views without being denounced as an enemy of the people.
He's arguing for 4 distinct battles and for no blockades except when there is non-collection. As several people have pointed out, this is a recipe for defeat and is exactly what the council are trying to get us to do. Their officials have really been pushing this line when confronted with blockades. Fortunately, most of our supporters do get the concept of the solidarity blockades, at least in areas where activists have made the arguments.
You, on the other hand, are making a tactical point about blockades. Certainly there is little point in an isolated blockade holding out indefinitely when collection is still going ahead in the area. However, activists should really be building support in their areas for the idea of solidarity blockades which will go all out as soon as we have a critical mass of local campaigns that have built the support to do it, collection or not. What we desperately need is a city-wide strategy that we can articulate to members on the ground, and explain to people exactly what we are trying to do.
i should have been clearer that i was making a separate point from janus. i do think though that it is incorrect to suggest that he was not engaging with the argument; he was: his point was differing from yours (and mine).
i dont agree with the janus poiint about 4 seperate campaigns, but again its a difference of opinion. janus over at least a year has always posted progressive comments. there is no way that he is out to sabotage the campaign.
It's true. It's all true. My real identity is that of Garda Michelle Lynch, based out of Store St Garda station with a brief to monitor the left on internet bulletin groups. My cover is blown, my existence as an enemy of the people revealed.
On a more serious note, though I have no doubt some people half believe the above, my point is fairly simple.
Let's look at this logically. Does a solidarity blockade in Dundrum of a bin truck collecting waste harm the Council in say Fingal?
Manifestly not. We are not forcing them to spread their resources. Fingal's reaction to bin trucks being stopped will be the same whether something is stopped in Dundrum or not. We're not stretching them.
To use an extreme example, rioters in the North who were under pressure from the RUC often called on other areas to turn out and riot. This was to stretch the RUC, force them to commit reserves, weakened their assault on the first area as personnel were re-allocated.
That makes sense. That's logical, that's a good tactic.
That has nothing to do with the solidarity blockades. If 20 people block a truck in Fingal, why should a truck being blocked in Dundrum make it more or less likely of those 20 people turning out? What resources on behalf of the State are being stretched? If no trucks are stopped in Dundrum, why does this damage the campaign in Fingal?
The Council is not picking us off area by area as there are four Councils acting by and large independently and sharing intelligence. The Council is NOT holding back from committing in South Dublin because of the extent of the campaign in Fingal is stretching their resources. They're two different Councils with different resources.
I would make one last point. I think it should be underlined, absolutely underlined, that no blockades should take place without the support of local people. A blockade took place recently in Dublin City Council area (A complete shambles btw) in defiance of a request from the local residents association to local activists not to do such a protest. The protest, in Donaghmede, was a complete failure and took place because members of two political organisations whom I can name but am choosing not to in order to avoid mad sectarian infighting decided it should go ahead without the support of local residents.
I think this is an exception, I have no doubt the overwhelming majority of blockades have local support, but people should be careful of their enthusiasm.
"The Council is not picking us off area by area as there are four Councils acting by and large independently and sharing intelligence. The Council is NOT holding back from committing in South Dublin because of the extent of the campaign in Fingal is stretching their resources. They're two different Councils with different resources."
Even though I think you raise some valid points about the political result to be got out of having blockades in areas where there is full collection, I definetely don't agree that the the four councils aren't acting together.
It seems to me that they are acting in concert (to rob the line from their injunctions), it made political sense to start with Fingal and to attempt to defeat the area where like it or not the two most visible politicians involved in the campaign were based. A quick victory there would have led to a harder political battle for the other campaigns.
Anyway J you do contradict yourself because it is no longer a case of solidarity with Fingal, the battle has commenced in Dublin City and surely it makes sense to offer solidarity with those in your own council area who are suffering non-collection. To wait for the battle to come to your own street is plain madness.
That said I find myself in agreeement with Pat C and don't see the point of being injuncted when the council are collecting bins thus knocking myself out of the battle prematurely.
But then it might be an idea to tease out these questions at a Dublin meeting but oddly enough, just when we are in the midst of the battle it would seem that for whatever reason that option is being denied.
Why would that be - any takers?
Nobody is accusing Janus of trying to sabotage the campaign. I don't even think that the (I almost named them but why bother) organisations arguing against solidarity blockades are trying to sabotage the campaign. There may be some cynical motives mixed in but by and large they want the campaign to succeed. They aren't bad, just wrong.
The establishment's strategy is coordinated. They are trying to pick off individual areas, one by one. Those of us outside those areas are then faced with a choice - take meaningful action in solidarity or sit back and wait for them to come for us after they have worn down Fingal etc. There are no other options.
What effect do solidarity blockades have?
In many cases they are a direct drain on the resources of the councils concerned - for instance blockades in Dublin South and the City cause immediate problems for those councils regardless of whether they happen to be in areas where non-collection has already started.
In every case (including Dl/Rath), solidarity blockades have the effect of escalating the campaign, lending encouragement to those on the real front lines (Fingal etc), and increasing the political pressure on the establishment to deal with the issue.
All that is without even mentioning the useful effect they can have on the campaign taking solidarity action. The Dundrum blockade, for instance, was in solidarity with Fingal but it also was about sending a very clear message to the council and to the residents that the council has been trying to intimidate into paying that the campaign is strong and determined.
Janus has not answered my question about those Council areas where non-collection has started in some places but not in others. Should residents in one part of, say, South Dublin take action in solidarity with another part of the same Council area? If you don't think so, then you really are arguing for a campaign that only fights on a route by route basis and that is no campaign at all.
None of this is meant to sound aggressive or dismissive towards people who are supportive of the campaign but I am being blunt here because I really think that if those who are arguing for a "wait until they come for us" approach prevail that they will doom us all to defeat.
So calm down with the accusations of paranoia. What was said that the tactics that you propose are playing into the hands of the council. I don't think anybody thinks that this is due to you being some sort of double agent; much simpler to assume that you are mistaken (from our point of view).
But, to be honest, your analysis is pretty naive when you claim that their is no inter-relation between the struggle in the 4 council areas.
Although the charges are being imposed by 4 independent bodies, they are obviously acting in concert. If the situation in Fingal has no relevance on the timing of the decision to implement non-collection in the city, then the council bureaucrats would have to be incredibly stupid, which they're not. Do you think that their 'salami tactics' are just coincidental and bear no relation to the fact that they do not want to face a battle on all fronts at once?
The tactics of the campaign are to create as widespread a disruption of the service as possible in order to put pressure on the _government_ to back down. The councils are merely implementing government policy. In that context, we need to bring the situation to crisis as quickly as possible and it really doesn't matter which council area we act in. We need to create the perception that there will be no 'business as usual' anywhere in Dublin until all bins are once again collected.
Incidentally, what are you doing for the bin campaign?
I'm going to take specific points in reverse order and then tactics in general
Chekov,
I didn't take the accusations seriously, hence my statement after the first para.
As for what I am doing in the campaign, I'm not paying my Bin Tax for one. I've attended meetings in my area and pickets outside Dublin City Hall. I even wrote to my TDs on the matter. (There's futile struggle for you)
On the issue of blockades, I took part in one blockade in the City Council area, though I arrived late when I couldn't find the bin truck.
So Chekov, how do I score? Good enough? ;)
All or None,
I think in areas where non-collection has started in some places but not in others a token stoppage should be done. Hold it up for 15 minutes, half an hour at most, show the Council that you can, demonstrate power, and make it clear that if that bin route turns non-collection you can hold them if you choose. Don't prevent Bin men willing to collect everyones bins from doing so.
The naive/working together thing.
I agree they're co-ordinating, but they are distinct battles. The Bin Tax is a different price and administered differently in different areas. The Campaign is stronger in some areas than others and that makes a different fight. My point is that in a PURELY practical fashion, a picket in South Dublin does not weaken the Council in Fingal.
Let me make a suggestion, and it's a suggestion I can't act on (I start work at 7am and no offence to the revolution, but I can't afford to be skipping works to block trucks) so I'll admit that from the get-go. Here's a solidarity protest for you. A dozen activists from an area where they are collecting block a truck in an area where they're not.
That's practical support. That's stretching them, backing up your comrades. Now, it's harder certainly, but it's a more effective show of solidarity.
Anyway, I'm leaving work now to attend the protest in front of Leinster House. Hope to see youse all there :) Or not as the annonymity of Indymedia ensures.
"a picket in South Dublin does not weaken the Council in Fingal"
That is bullshit. The best way to defeat Fingal Co Co is to defeat one of the other councils. We need to extend the 'all bins or no bins' approach to the whole of Dublin. If a bin is left uncollected in Balbriggen we need to block trucks in Bray, who cares what DLR co co are doing re non collection
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