IFPA Choice Meeting

by pat c Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:48

Alliance for Choice -

Campaigning for safe, free, legal abortion to be available in
Ireland, and wants the government to recognise the needs of women who
travel abroad for abortions.

Next Meeting :

The next Alliance for Choice meeting takes place on Tuesday August 5
@ 8.00pm in the Teachers' Club.

by Mark Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:27

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by pat c Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:34

Learn how to spell. You are a good argument for post-natal termination.

by Mark Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:49

If one mis-spelling is a reason for a post natal termination (murder), it says it all about your views on abortion (murder) doesn't it.

by pat c Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:57

I just hate scum like you, if you had seriously commented on the notice, then I would have debated the point with you. You are just a woman-hating troll.Kindly go away.

by Anonymous Wed Jul 30, 2003 13:14

My point was serious Pat C, in fact I believe there are few comments one could make about anything that are as serious as the one I made.

I love women as much as I love any human being (even you Pat C! :)

Even in the U.S., of all countries!, the number of pro-life people are finally increasing, while the number of pro-choice people are declining. Only 16% of Americans now believe that abortion should be legal for any reason.

taken from a "Womens" web site:-

http://womensissues.about.com

Abortion Statistics - Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice

According to a USA Today, CNN Gallup Poll in May, 1999 - 16% of Americans believe abortion should be legal for any reason at any time during pregnancy and 55% of American believe abortion should be legal only to save the life of the mother or in cases of rape or incest.

According to a Callup Poll in January, 2001 - People who considered themselves to be pro-life rose from 33% to 43% in the past 5 years, and people who considered themselves to be pro-choice declined from 56% to 48%.

by The Insider Wed Jul 30, 2003 13:32

...trying to prevent Irish women from having abortions in ireland?

I mean, the 6,000 odd who go to the UK every year are the biggest argument for allowing abortion in Ireland. It's already a reality, the Pro-life side has lost.

by Cleaver Wed Jul 30, 2003 13:53

If the vast majority of Americans are 'Pro-Life' as you like to put it, why are they so supportive of Bush's murderous war against Iraq and Muslims, or do Arabs not count as people too.
Also this same war is funded by cutting public health care systems that also save lives.
So please go back and bury your head in the bible or else piss off back to your YD HQ on Capel St. and give my best to Jug Ears Barrett.

by MG Wed Jul 30, 2003 14:19

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by Anonymous Wed Jul 30, 2003 14:33

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by sidlebar Wed Jul 30, 2003 14:53

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by Anonymous Wed Jul 30, 2003 15:23

and a respect for other peoples opinions even though they may be different to one's own.

by The Insider Wed Jul 30, 2003 15:34

What's the point in banning abortions in Ireland any more.

by Anonymous Wed Jul 30, 2003 16:13

Sorry "the insider". Tis a good point you make and one that is often raised in favour of free and open and "abortion" in Ireland.

Ireland as a soverign state cannot legislate for the laws in other lands. We cannot force our laws on any other country. Therefore if "abortion" is legal in the U.K. and a woman wishes to go there for an abortion, then I don't think there is anything legally that can be done or should be done about that.

However, I do not believe that this means because there is nothing we can do about British law means that we should just change our laws.

If a majority of the Irish people do not believe in abortion on demand then I think this should be upheld.

A good current comparison, in both legal & moral terms, I think is the Shannon military stopover. A lot of pro-Shannon commentators have said that what is the point in trying to close the stop-over, sure the U.S. planes will just go, as they have done, to other stopovers in Europe.

Does this mean then that people should just give up on their protests of Shannon being used as a stopover for people on their way to kill other people?

Also - not having abortion in Ireland, I belive acts as a deterent to a woman having an abortion in Ireland, both in moral & physical terms.

If this results in the saving of just "one" life, then I belive this is reason enough for not opening up our laws just because women are going to the UK for abortion.

by ipsiphi Wed Jul 30, 2003 16:23

Abortion on demand is also illegal in the Northern Ireland state.
So Irish women go to Wales and England.

by Sidlebar Wed Jul 30, 2003 16:56

“not having abortion in Ireland, I believe acts as a deterent to a woman having an abortion in Ireland, both in moral & physical terms.”

That is utter rubbish, it just means that women are forced to travel abroad thus it makes it more expensive, terminations happen at a later stage of pregnancy presenting greater health risks to the woman. And because they have to travel they lack any support or counseling following the operation.

“If this results in the saving of just "one" life, then I believe this is reason enough for not opening up our laws just because women are going to the UK for abortion.”
So Madeline Albright, how many suicides of will it take before its worth changing the law.

by Anonymous Wed Jul 30, 2003 17:54

"That is utter rubbish". I do not agree with you at all. You contradict yourself by saying in the next line that "it makes it more expensive" - i.e. physical deterent.

Regarding a moral deterent - most women (and if still there, their partner or husband & mothers etc. etc.) thinking of having an "abortion" will go through a moral dilema. If it is open free season in Ireland to have an abortion, for any reason whatsoever, and fully legal, this will no doubt weigh down on the "its okay" side to have an abortion. And undoubtedly this would have the effect of an increased number of "abortions" in Ireland.

For these and for other reasons I stated above - namely the comparison with the Shannon stopover - I do not think "just" becuase abortion is legal in the UK means that it should be legal here also.

If the majority of the Irish population think & vote otherwise - then this is the only reason where I think abortion should be fully legalized in Ireland.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one "Sidlebar".

To me the morality of the "act" of "abortion", except in certain circumstances, is not complicated.

But legislating abortion is very complicated, and very emotive.

Respect.

by child X Wed Jul 30, 2003 19:07

very very emotive.

by Yossarian Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:57

So if the majority decides that we must all refrain from listening to music then that's ok? What about the people who don't agree...tough shit, eh?

by Anonymous Thu Jul 31, 2003 12:43

See your point Yossarian. Another tricky one indeed, especially when the country is so split down the middle.

But how else do you propose to run a democracy?

If a minority think its okay to rape women, molest children or look at child pornography sites - should this all be legal then?

by Phuq Hedd Thu Jul 31, 2003 19:14

What about if the MAJORITY think its okay to rape women, molest children or look at child pornography sites - should this all be legal then?

by Anonymous Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:49

My brain is scrambled at the thought of it all Phuq Hedd!

How would you answer your own question and as I asked Yossarian how else would you propose to run a democracy viz a viz majority/minority rulings?