Need for Truth About Protest Numbers

national | miscellaneous | news report

Tuesday April 01, 2003 12:46

by Dominic Carroll - Clonakilty Against the War

clonakiltyagainstthewar at eircom dot net

Leave the Lies to the Pentagon

Accuracy regarding protest numbers essential to retain credibility and to inform those organising future protests.

On an earlier posting (http://www.indymedia.ie/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=39182), a comment was submitted which cast doubt on the number of those attending the Mothers' Day Peace Vigil in Clonakilty last Sunday. I reported 60 people. The comment querying the figure was as follows:

"True Figure ?
by Bob The Builder Mon, Mar 31 2003, 3:58pm
Isn't it interesting that exactly 60 turned up..."

I include a photo of the vigil and, though the quality is not good, I think you can count precisly 60 people – not 59, not 61, not 45,000, not 1.5 million – 60.

Elsewhere on Indymedia, a debate on numbers attending the Dublin demos is being conducted. Whatever about the media's lies and ineptitude, we can only retain credibility regarding numbers by telling the truth (no matter how painful it might sometimes be).

Nevertheless, it is severely dissapointing when the media under-report protest numbers. But it's up to us to instigate a system for counting. At Shannon, I suggest people form up in rows of 10 at the start of the march specifically for counting. This won't always work as people often join a march whilst in progress. At Shannon, however, that won't be the case.

Fundamentally, the issue is about credibility and accuracy. And those of us involved in organising demos are interested in knowing the true figure for those participating – not how many we would like to have been there.

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Comments (11 of 11)

Number verification . . .

by Rob

Tue Apr 01, 2003 13:03

I think it would by a highly useful tool if, for a major protest, some sort of method of actually determining an exact number could be obtained. This may not be as far fetched as it sounds. Surely someone out there has access to turnstyle type units or something to that effect which could be stretched along the street accessing merion square/government buildings/shannon entrance (granted a large numebr of them would be needed and good organisation, cooperation and patience - but these are all qualities already seen at many of these marches). For maximum effect the march could be seperated and regroup at the destination from differing access points. Guarda cooperation is not neccessarily needed as it could turn into an act of civil disobedience in a peaceful and productive/acceptible way, a simple count of heads.

This would serve to put the power in our hands and require that the media come to us in search of facts and figures instead of undermining the presence and public support(or equally from our side over estimating, and thus fictionalising effect). I think it's worth thinking about and debating (If the machinery can be found or created - such things in the manner of dart station gates or sports ground access etc. there's loads of different variations).

I agree but...

by Eoin O'M.

Tue Apr 01, 2003 13:30

...no matter how well verified other gatherings / protests / demos will be the mainstream media will always under - report and / or call in to question the verification by the demos organisers. I agree with you though, perhaps it doesn't seem like it!

How many /s is that?

A bloody good idea

by Lord Widgeridoo

Tue Apr 01, 2003 13:34

What about sending in a regiment of Paratroopers ? They could shoot all the demonstrators.
Then we would have a highly reliable and difficult to falsify body count.

Solution

by Mr Soya Bean Man

Tue Apr 01, 2003 14:00

I've always found the easiest way is to count the legs and divide by two

You're as well try and find out the length of a rope

by Foolish

Tue Apr 01, 2003 14:01

it'll be just as precise

Count legs?

by foolish

Tue Apr 01, 2003 14:02

Be careful of the 'pervert' accusations... or maybe hold a sign above you saying "protester counter"...and if you've got a camera be ready for a thump

formula

Tue Apr 01, 2003 14:03

Take the number provided by the SWP, divide it by the number estimated by the Garda, add the number of boom boxes on trolleys and multiply it by the number of boring speeches by Dublin West Labour TDs.

independent newspapers said 8000 last saturday

by .

Tue Apr 01, 2003 14:55

this figure has no relation whatsoever to reality

Dr Annabel lies

we in Barcelona believe

by iosaf - espai alliberat contre le guerre

Tue Apr 01, 2003 15:41

that the current phase of the pacifism/anti-globalisation movement is counting (on open assembly on the streets) of approximately 1 million people.

We hold that figure from the average tally of attendance confirmed by press groups, police and municipal authorities
Feb 15
Mar 15
and all other days have seen 75% representation of groupings convoked be they student or worker unions.

Space has been liberated against war by that many people.

you don't have to go out on the street every day you know your vote has been counted!

Easy

by 13th Imam

Tue Apr 01, 2003 16:50

It is quite easy to count the number at the demos. Stand in one place and count how many pass in a minute. Thentime how long it take the whole demo to pass. Do a few easy sums and hey presto a fairly accurate fugure.

This is true

by anon

Wed Apr 02, 2003 08:49

I for one would never, ever believe any crowd estimate from the SWP. They are a complete joke.

A standard rule of thumb might be to get the SWP figure and half it.

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Need for Truth About Protest Numbers

Comments (11 of 11)