New Europe is showing the way in supporting the USA with its invasion of Iraq, goodbye Old Europe

by Ray Fri Jan 31, 2003 14:45

In the UK, Italy, Spain, and the Czech republic, repeated surveys have shown that people oppose the war. But their political 'leaders' ignore the will of the people, and fall into line behind Bush. But then I wouldn't expect a Fianna Fail member to understand why that's a problem, given Bertie's history of breaking promises and ignoring democracy.

by John Yorks Fri Jan 31, 2003 15:36

I'm writing this from the USA. What the original author is saying wouldn't make any sense to even most pro-war supporters. What? Shut down basic freedoms and rights. If that is new Europe, I'm pulling 1000% for the old Europe.

by Spartacus Fri Jan 31, 2003 15:44

Remember the all-powerful Nero?

Remember Adolf Hitler

Remember Atilla the Hun

Remember Queen Victoria and her glorious Empire.

All that's left is dust and bones.

Every Empire that ever stalked the earth has disappeared. The Romans lasted a thousand years. The Nazis lasted 12 years. Mussolini lasted 23 years.

Every empire crumbled. The USA will crumble too (and I'm not anti-American). The USA empire will collapse but it's people will go on as people always go on.

Saddam will be forgotten. So will Bush.

They are all doomed!

by Badman Fri Jan 31, 2003 15:48

Those governments in the world which are very dependant on the US for their political and financial survival will jump through whatever hoops Dubya puts in front of them. Its the same story in the kleptocracies of 'new' Europe like Hungary as in those of 'old' Europe, like Ireland. The people disagree with the war almost everywhere.

by Maciek, Poland Fri Jan 31, 2003 16:13

And keep in mind that in Poland mainstream media are much, much worse than in W.Europe - it's really seems like old communist-style blackout.
According to last Dubya's statement "we" are the best friend of US in Europe (well, we had to jump over UK :-)
This is what democracy looks like.

So it's not New Europe, but last sighs of the Old Empire.

by Terry Fri Jan 31, 2003 16:50

I would just like to say a big thank-you to the Loyal FF supporter. You very clearly show
the true authoritarian right-wing streak, indeed fascist elements that lies at the heart of
your party and the sort of society you long for, so much.

Indeed you are quite right about Europe. It is becoming an authoritarian super-power just like
the USA. So far it lacks a military machine as big as the USA, but the new rapid-reaction force
is a very good start. Well there has been a good deal of justified criticism of the robber-baron
Capitalist system that prevails in the USA today, not enough attention has been paid to what is
going on in Europe and which is alarminly following a very similar pattern. So again I wish to
thank you for drawing attention to this, as there were so many people who couldn't quite believe
it was happening here too.

Original posting was such an obvious troll!

by iosaf Fri Jan 31, 2003 18:44 barcelona

Aznar
Burlosconi
Blair
these are Bush´s allies in Europe.
and Ahern´s?

has anyone yet explained to you what problems those have in their little states?
and with whom?

Finland-neutral
Sweden-neutral
France- invasion is illegal.
Denmark-invasion is illegal.

oh yes FF dismiss them. Who is responsible for your West African bilateral aid programe?
do the words Ansbacher is back have any grit yet?
don´t worry they will.

oh and the other pals of Bush?
Poland
Czech republic.
oh very well done there.
very powerful.
The Polish have certainly been good allies always haven´t they?
and the czechs?
hmmm.
did FF read the Prague reports on NATO 2002?

our other sometimes unspoken aims are to rid ourselves of the shitties cabal of politicians this continent has given us.
have you got that message yet FF?
the little rascals are on the list.
with Aznar
with Burlosconi
with Blair.

just watch them all line up.
we in Barcelona are finding this all quite dreamy.

by ff watcher Fri Jan 31, 2003 23:20

Robertson: Enlargement will strengthen NATO

GEORGE ROBERTSON - NATO Secretary General believes enlargement will strengthen NATO
In an interview with die Welt b, Secretary-General, George Robertson, said he believes that NATO will be strengthened by enlarging its membership to Eastern European and Baltic states.

NATO is not just about military capabilities, but about "political influence", he pointed out. "It is about creating an area of common values," he said.

Mr Robertson added that while it is true that the new members will not bring vast military resources or finances to NATO, they have specialised capabilities that are very important. Most of these countries have experience in protection against biological and chemical weapons, which many current NATO countries have already given up, he said.

The Secretary-General added that those countries wishing to join – Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Romania and Bulgaria – have many special forces. NATO must move in this direction, he said.

Rapid Reaction Force
Mr Robertson does not believe that the creation of the European Rapid Reaction Force will be to the detriment of NATO. He said the capabilities and capacities that the Europeans are contributing to their common defence projects could also be used by NATO.

We do need to have separate troops, he told die Welt, adding that if the US does not want to be involved in "fighting bushfires" in Europe then Europe will still be capable of acting itself.

The previous Western European Union (WEU) was perfect on paper but a "catastrophe" when facing a challenge, he said. Mr Robertson added that an increased Security and Defence policy would strengthen the EU. It is tragic that agreement is so difficult, he said.

by ZB Fri Jan 31, 2003 23:25 Belgium.

Comment of Verhofstadt (right-wing prime minister of Belgium)'

'Old Europe is the Europe of war and colonialism.....''

by 'old ff' (Haughey) Fri Jan 31, 2003 23:57

'Old Europe' hits back at Rumsfeld

Friday, January 24, 2003 Posted: 1:12 PM EST (1812 GMT)
The leaders of France and Germany marked 40 years of partnership this week with President Chirac saying they had the The leaders of France and Germany marked 40 years of partnership this week with President Chirac saying they had the "same view" on Iraq.

BERLIN, Germany -- German and French politicians and media across the political spectrum have hit back angrily at U.S. criticism that the two countries belonged to "old Europe" and were isolated in their opposition to war in Iraq.

"I find this comment on 'old Europe' deeply irritating. Old Europe is resilient and capable of bouncing back," French Finance Minister Francis Mer said.

"Cool down," German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer shot back at comments by U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. "We are good friends and allies."

Rumsfeld angered France and Germany by saying they were not representative of a "New Europe" that includes former Soviet bloc countries. "You're thinking of Europe as Germany and France. I don't. I think that's old Europe," Rumsfeld told reporters.

On Friday Rumsfeld's comments had unusually brought unity among French and German politicians of left and right together with the two countries' newspapers, from the German tabloids to the French heavyweights.

Commentator Christian Malard of France-3 TV told CNN that President Jacques Chirac was "a little bit shocked" by Rumsfeld's comments but considers the U.S. a friend and was trying to play down the row................

by an american dissident Sat Feb 01, 2003 21:59

thank you, FF (Fascist Front?) spokesman for bringing up the glorious history of smaller nations bowing to the will of an economic and military empire...

hungary, czech republic, poland...their governments quick to act as auxiliaries to the great american empire. certainly, we should applaud as more nations bow to its despotic will.
and turkey? great example!

but bush is no caesar, more like caligula, or nero, and we all know what happened to them. historical inevitability being as it is, the usa is poised to wage war against the entire world, militarily, economically, and ideologically.

ireland would do well to remain on the winning side, that side which will outlast the power fantasies of megalomaniacs like rumsfeld, cheney and bush. and us "pinko-anarchist" types remain the last true hope for liberty and sustainable security in this world. when the empire slips, we will be there, as we always have, to help bring its disgusting institutions crashing down.

no war between nations
no peace between classes

by Des Sun Feb 02, 2003 12:04

Am I the only person who thinks that the above post is a wind up?